Vet Bashing
- Thread starter LEC
- Start date
Supertrooper
Well-Known Member
This I think is part of the issue
Also people buying stupidly expensive dogs but then not having the money or the inclination to spend anything on veterinary treatment
I’ve been a vet nurse for 28yrs and I’ve never had to deal with the abuse in that time that we’ve received over the last 7/8 months
We’ve all broken down in tears at points because we are only trying to do our best in what are difficult circumstances for everyone
Just be kind, we understand that clients will have questions and concerns but just remember we are only human too
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
I dont think you read the post correctly Gingerwitch. Talk about going off the deep end.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
So what part of " i ask if it's insured so I can see what diagnostics we can or cannot afford to do " Is me reading the post wrong ?
Redders
Well-Known Member
I wish I could say it gets easier...
that’s the thing KEK. I know it probably won’t! My current £9 an hour will improve, and maybe I will get better at letting comments slide off my back, but really I think they will always sting. Covid makes it worse as everyone’s anxiety is heightened, but even without that, comments and bad feeling has always been there. I have had many many nice words and thanks from owners and I’m keeping them in a box to look at when I feel rough but sometimes it’s hard to remember those when someone tells me I don’t care.
move decided if I ever feel like those other poor vets who felt their only way was to leave the world, even a tiny bit, I will leave the profession.
I can see GW has quoted me but her post with it isn’t there, so I don’t know what she said, she is entitled to her opinion though. Nothing in there is directly or meanly attributed to anyone on here, it’s an amalgamation of how I have been feeling and if you recognise anything I’ve written as something you may have said or done to any vet, then I hope it makes you think about the human behind the job and maybe you say it in a different way. Not saying anyone has, or would, just that a little kindness and compassion from both parties goes a long way. I promise you I do my absolute best and try my hardest, regardless if I am double booked, busy, sad, your pet is insured, not insured, old or young.
Redders
Well-Known Member
Because there are certain diagnostics I need to be able to treat the animal depending on it’s presentation. I can make an educated guess but that isn’t 100% and so diagnostics should be done. If an animal is insured or the owner can afford tests, then I will list which ones are most essential and important and then state the ‘good to have to be definitive’ tests. If we can do all of the tests, well then I am able to confidently say what the issue is and begin treatment at the correct doses and time length. There are some illnesses where if we don’t perform diagnostics, we wouldn’t know where to start, and somewhere even if I have a suspicion, it’s down right dangerous to trial treat with the medications needed, so tests are required to be able to start treatment. Not because I see insurance and want to ‘rinse’ it. That’s ridiculous. I see insurance and know that means I can do my best for the pet and give them everything needed, not cut bits of the treatment Or diagnostics plan out and take shortcuts
Redders
Well-Known Member
Also in my post I bracketed (or owners who can afford diagnostics) after I said insured. I never assume. I always ask. You may be able to afford it, but there are many I see who can’t.
And I feel quite saddened though that in that whole post you chose to pick up on some perceived slight and have a go.
And I feel quite saddened though that in that whole post you chose to pick up on some perceived slight and have a go.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Open up the post and you will see my response !
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Redders, post: 14441253, member: 79415"I see insurance and know that means I can do my best for the pet and give them everything needed, not cut bits of the treatment Or diagnostics plan out and take shortcuts[/QUOTE]
And I read the first post wrong....
And I read the first post wrong....
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
You did not say that in your original post. Read it back, it was uninsured owner bashing ! And pretty insulting
ihatework
Well-Known Member
And I read the first post wrong....[/QUOTE]
Wind your neck in. What a nasty person you can be. Read the entire post in context.
Redders I’m sorry you have to deal with people like the above.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
I had a just qualified vet out. She askefe what I thought was wrong - swollen udder. Diagnosed a tumour in her first visit ! Needed sending to leahurst now. Senior vet arrived it was a sting !
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Wind your neck in. What a nasty person you can be. Read the entire post in context.
Redders I’m sorry you have to deal with people like the above.[/QUOTE]
No you wind your neck in!
Redders
Well-Known Member
It wasn’t. It is my original post about halfway down.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Ok I apologise, but the red mist came down at the start of your post. Sorry x
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
this was in Redders' post. that's why i said you had read it wrong, GW.
TPO
Well-Known Member
There certainly seems to be an influx in new/first time dog owners. I've got friends who have never had a pet in their life and now have all the "poos". I'm willing to bet they dont have a clue about the cost of anything from worming tablets to vet appointments. They are in a position that they could pay if the need arises but I'm betting there are many more who couldnt.
Animals, of all kinds, are just too easy to get and as people in general have more disposable income buying an animal isn't the commitment with months/years of saving that it once was.
Covid obviously hasnt helped with the financial impact it will have with job losses and the overall "tension" in society. Of course no one in any occupation should be abused and sadly it's happening in all walks of customer facing roles right now. I dont know how you stop people behaving that way.
On the other side I know vets who love their job, like most (!) of their clients and enjoy all the different aspects of their job. I know another vet who went into the research side and she seems to really enjoy it. A friend from primary school who is a small animal vet nurse absolutely loves her job and always has done.
Maybe unhappy vets need to look at positions with other practices where staff morale is higher or use their qualifications differently in the same way any of us in any industry would have to do if unhappy.
I was shocked to find out the vets salary. Certainly at school it was what everyone was pushing me to do and dangling the golden carrot of being "rich". Not that money was the driver for me, I just loved animals and built up my uni application experience working weekends in the vets from age 12 onwards. Keen!
Having decided against that path I didnt give it a second thought but as I said before I was shocked to see what vets earned as I always assuming it would be much higher.
However just as the information is there for owners re vet costs prior to buying an animal the salary information is there prior to starting uni. I'm not saying that money is the motivator but if the finish up wages arent enough to sustain you then that's something to account for before 6yrs at uni?
Have listened to a similar discussion with my sister. She was a mature nursing student and since qualifying does nothing but complain about the wages being too low and how not right it is that "someone like me" (without a degree) is earning more for a job "not as important" as hers.
I agree nursing is an important job and they should be paid accordingly BUT everyone knew the wages, and lack of pay rises, before they went into that field. I support payrises for nurses, dont back the Tories etc but I dont see how people in certain occupations can complain about the poor salary having had that information at their disposal prior to starting down that path.
We've all just got to cut our cloth to suit.
I would suggest that anyone who is being abused by customers at work reports them to their manager and that the manager bans them. Zero tolerance will hopefully help stamp them out.
Again I've said the "paying for vets private jet" thing. Never to a vets face as it's not about them or an insult to them, it's a joke at MY expense (literally and figuratively speaking) keeping a walking vet bill of a horse. To the vet I joked that his visit is my summer holiday/new car. I mean this was a horse that saw the vet weekly and at best monthly, life didnt laugh about it...
As a few people in the veterinary industry seem to be struggling maybe contacting the helpline here will help
https://www.vetlife.org.uk/how-we-help/vetlife-helpline/
Anyway back to my point. I dont think people sharing bad experiences is necessarily "vet bashing". I think owners should be empowered to ask questions and not have to accept everything a vet says; all humans are fallible and that's doesnt make them bad people.
What I dont know is how you determine genuine bad experiences from people who don't know what they are talking about and dont want to pay their bills.
Even if vet calls out were something ludicrous like £200 per visit the bonus is on you to find that out before committing to an animal and its care because if you cant afford the vet bills (& feed & saddle fitting & hoofcare & so on & on) then you cant afford to own the animal.
However having now read it I do think the RJ article is vet bashing and is completely out of order, even more so considering her financial situation.
Animals, of all kinds, are just too easy to get and as people in general have more disposable income buying an animal isn't the commitment with months/years of saving that it once was.
Covid obviously hasnt helped with the financial impact it will have with job losses and the overall "tension" in society. Of course no one in any occupation should be abused and sadly it's happening in all walks of customer facing roles right now. I dont know how you stop people behaving that way.
On the other side I know vets who love their job, like most (!) of their clients and enjoy all the different aspects of their job. I know another vet who went into the research side and she seems to really enjoy it. A friend from primary school who is a small animal vet nurse absolutely loves her job and always has done.
Maybe unhappy vets need to look at positions with other practices where staff morale is higher or use their qualifications differently in the same way any of us in any industry would have to do if unhappy.
I was shocked to find out the vets salary. Certainly at school it was what everyone was pushing me to do and dangling the golden carrot of being "rich". Not that money was the driver for me, I just loved animals and built up my uni application experience working weekends in the vets from age 12 onwards. Keen!
Having decided against that path I didnt give it a second thought but as I said before I was shocked to see what vets earned as I always assuming it would be much higher.
However just as the information is there for owners re vet costs prior to buying an animal the salary information is there prior to starting uni. I'm not saying that money is the motivator but if the finish up wages arent enough to sustain you then that's something to account for before 6yrs at uni?
Have listened to a similar discussion with my sister. She was a mature nursing student and since qualifying does nothing but complain about the wages being too low and how not right it is that "someone like me" (without a degree) is earning more for a job "not as important" as hers.
I agree nursing is an important job and they should be paid accordingly BUT everyone knew the wages, and lack of pay rises, before they went into that field. I support payrises for nurses, dont back the Tories etc but I dont see how people in certain occupations can complain about the poor salary having had that information at their disposal prior to starting down that path.
We've all just got to cut our cloth to suit.
I would suggest that anyone who is being abused by customers at work reports them to their manager and that the manager bans them. Zero tolerance will hopefully help stamp them out.
Again I've said the "paying for vets private jet" thing. Never to a vets face as it's not about them or an insult to them, it's a joke at MY expense (literally and figuratively speaking) keeping a walking vet bill of a horse. To the vet I joked that his visit is my summer holiday/new car. I mean this was a horse that saw the vet weekly and at best monthly, life didnt laugh about it...
As a few people in the veterinary industry seem to be struggling maybe contacting the helpline here will help
https://www.vetlife.org.uk/how-we-help/vetlife-helpline/
Anyway back to my point. I dont think people sharing bad experiences is necessarily "vet bashing". I think owners should be empowered to ask questions and not have to accept everything a vet says; all humans are fallible and that's doesnt make them bad people.
What I dont know is how you determine genuine bad experiences from people who don't know what they are talking about and dont want to pay their bills.
Even if vet calls out were something ludicrous like £200 per visit the bonus is on you to find that out before committing to an animal and its care because if you cant afford the vet bills (& feed & saddle fitting & hoofcare & so on & on) then you cant afford to own the animal.
However having now read it I do think the RJ article is vet bashing and is completely out of order, even more so considering her financial situation.
KEK
Well-Known Member
I wish I could say it gets easier...
Covid has definitely made a lot of things worse. For some reason, it made our jobs much, much, much busier. That seems to be a world wide phenomenon. And of course it has made a lot of people much more stressed.
I'm hoping you have a good mentor at your clinic as, IMO, that is the difference between making it through those first few years especially, or not.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
I've worked a lot of jobs. There's always that one "joke" about your job that gets under your skin. There's always awful people to deal with. No-one gets paid enough for any kind of frontline role. I worked out in teaching I was barely on minimum wage for the hours I did... and much less for the hours I theoretically should have been doing if you broke down all the guidance about how long you should take to plan a lesson and mark a book. I worked in retail where it was minimum wage with no hope of a rise, ever. I worked in tourism on a zero hours temporary contract despite having to put in hours of my own time researching to be effective at the job. I got treated like dirt by the organisation I worked for.
There's always public "bashing" on the Internet of your job that gets to you.
Everything is a choice though. So either stick at it or don't.
I really, really appreciate my good vets. But there are vets I wouldn't have back again too. It's a mixed bag.
There's always public "bashing" on the Internet of your job that gets to you.
Everything is a choice though. So either stick at it or don't.
I really, really appreciate my good vets. But there are vets I wouldn't have back again too. It's a mixed bag.
scats
Well-Known Member
It does seem that some occupations attract more job bashing than others. If you are a teacher, or have been, you will understand (honestly, it feels like teachers the most hated people in the world!)
I’ve had good and bad experience with vets and I’m pretty sure everyone out there with an animal, has a story to tell about poor service or misdiagnosis. Where animals (or children, in the case of teaching) are involved, emotions tend to be heightened.
I wanted to be a vet as a kid, but my health and missing so much school put a stop to that. I’m actually so glad I didn’t go down that route now, it sounds like an extremely stressful job and having seen how owners can be over a dogs haircut, you honestly couldn’t pay me enough money to be a vet..
I’ve had good and bad experience with vets and I’m pretty sure everyone out there with an animal, has a story to tell about poor service or misdiagnosis. Where animals (or children, in the case of teaching) are involved, emotions tend to be heightened.
I wanted to be a vet as a kid, but my health and missing so much school put a stop to that. I’m actually so glad I didn’t go down that route now, it sounds like an extremely stressful job and having seen how owners can be over a dogs haircut, you honestly couldn’t pay me enough money to be a vet..
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I do genuinely thing the money thing is tricky, what vets earn is a lot of money to a lot of people. I earnt significantly less post a science PhD at a vet school than vet starter salaries albeit with less debt as for 3 of the 6.5 years I spent at uni, I got a whopping 12k as stipend . I'd have done veterinary had they let me in but they didn't so this is plan B , I've never decided whether plan B is better or not, circumstances meaning that I knew a fair few vets who had opted out to do their PhDs just that they had more money than me as they would locum weekends .
Payrises, what are those lol, only ever if I move jobs.
I support vets entirely and got quite grumpy during a discussion at work the other week regarding vets not doing their own OOH and how they used to be there for the animals whatever, and why couldn't all the vets in town club together to run OOH themselves (the actual OOH is about 10 mins drive from work, not a massive inconvenience!)
I do think the big hitters could/should be doing a lot more to support their vets mental health, at the very least not making it difficult/awkward to allow them the time to access treatment.
With regards to recent months I do think a lot of pet owners have really struggled with not being able to be with their vets in consults and with the general rise in anxiety and tension that feeds into it too.
There does seem to be a shortage of vets in some areas, which really increases the pressures on the current employees.
. I'd have done veterinary had they let me in but they didn't so this is plan B , I've never decided whether plan B is better or not, circumstances meaning that I knew a fair few vets who had opted out to do their PhDs just that they had more money than me as they would locum weekends .Payrises, what are those lol, only ever if I move jobs.
I support vets entirely and got quite grumpy during a discussion at work the other week regarding vets not doing their own OOH and how they used to be there for the animals whatever, and why couldn't all the vets in town club together to run OOH themselves (the actual OOH is about 10 mins drive from work, not a massive inconvenience!)
I do think the big hitters could/should be doing a lot more to support their vets mental health, at the very least not making it difficult/awkward to allow them the time to access treatment.
With regards to recent months I do think a lot of pet owners have really struggled with not being able to be with their vets in consults and with the general rise in anxiety and tension that feeds into it too.
There does seem to be a shortage of vets in some areas, which really increases the pressures on the current employees.
babymare
Well-Known Member
I have never had any issues with my vets regarding both cost or treatment when owning horses. I had huge respect for them and their knowledge 1 in particular. Now owning a English springer(a breed known to "break" on a regular occurrence lol) I appreciate our SA vet and what they have done for our Tess. How they have coped through covid as been excellent and well managed. Vet bills aren't cheap but that's a choice you make when owning an animal. I pay for thier hard earned knowledge and I get it.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
I think the problem is the free treatment on the NHS, people are simply not used to paying for treatment and moan about prescription charges so a bill from a vet is a surprise and they have no idea what medical treatment costs.
A friend went to an oesteopath, one I had recommended to her for her own back problems. She was cured but was horrified at the cost of around £50.00. I reflected that I thought it was reasonable, but then I am paying £100+ every 6 weeks for the farrier, so basically quite used to paying out! I didn't tell her that.
I really do not like this growing "chain" of veterinary practices, I really think that they are out to get every penny from clients. I don't think our own vets are too expensive, but we have an independent large animal practice and they tend to specialise - small animals, cattle, sheep, horses, although some do everything. My small dog was limping and I was expecting to be told they would have her in overnight for an X ray, but no. She had an injection and was told to wait a couple of days too see if it got better, which it did for £40.00 a few years ago.
Years ago I went to our then vet practice (now small animal only) and saw a list of call-out charges, horses came first much more than farm animal call out charge. There was also a list of priorities in emergency - mare foaling came top.
I can imagine that it is easy to get fed up with being a vet. Probably it is because they love animals and want to help them and I think anyone who deals with the animals would say that they are fine, it is the owners who are the problem, as many takes above reinforce.
I sold my last horse to a vet nurse who said frankly that most of the time the vets seemed to be putting animals to sleep, which probably wasn't what they wanted to do when they started out.
I would think that farm vets have a better time, going out to do TB tests, which is just injecting the animals and then reading the result 3 days later (apart from the poor vet who had his arm broken during TB testing) and meeting the farmers who are characters and hearing all the gossip, when the client is very grateful when they bring an animal back from the dead and they rarely have to PTS a farm animal as the knacker man does that. There is some out of hours work - there is a rota for who is on call, but farmers can do some of the minor veterinary things themselves so the vet is left with the hard and tricky, interesting cases.
A friend went to an oesteopath, one I had recommended to her for her own back problems. She was cured but was horrified at the cost of around £50.00. I reflected that I thought it was reasonable, but then I am paying £100+ every 6 weeks for the farrier, so basically quite used to paying out! I didn't tell her that.
I really do not like this growing "chain" of veterinary practices, I really think that they are out to get every penny from clients. I don't think our own vets are too expensive, but we have an independent large animal practice and they tend to specialise - small animals, cattle, sheep, horses, although some do everything. My small dog was limping and I was expecting to be told they would have her in overnight for an X ray, but no. She had an injection and was told to wait a couple of days too see if it got better, which it did for £40.00 a few years ago.
Years ago I went to our then vet practice (now small animal only) and saw a list of call-out charges, horses came first much more than farm animal call out charge. There was also a list of priorities in emergency - mare foaling came top.
I can imagine that it is easy to get fed up with being a vet. Probably it is because they love animals and want to help them and I think anyone who deals with the animals would say that they are fine, it is the owners who are the problem, as many takes above reinforce.
I sold my last horse to a vet nurse who said frankly that most of the time the vets seemed to be putting animals to sleep, which probably wasn't what they wanted to do when they started out.
I would think that farm vets have a better time, going out to do TB tests, which is just injecting the animals and then reading the result 3 days later (apart from the poor vet who had his arm broken during TB testing) and meeting the farmers who are characters and hearing all the gossip, when the client is very grateful when they bring an animal back from the dead and they rarely have to PTS a farm animal as the knacker man does that. There is some out of hours work - there is a rota for who is on call, but farmers can do some of the minor veterinary things themselves so the vet is left with the hard and tricky, interesting cases.
baran
Well-Known Member
I don't see what your problem is. My vet always asks if the animal is insured - sensible question as costs are relevant and we are not made of money. Insured or uninsured, I still decide what is or what isn't done. My decision, not the vet's or insurance company's.
Polos Mum
Well-Known Member
I tend to lie to the vets and tell them I am NOT insured - (even if the horse they are looking as is).
Over 20 years I've had a clearer and more honest conversation with insurance taken out of the debate. The range of options given seems to be much wider when you are not insured.
If the fully debated answer is then expensive medical investigations then I will send the vets the claim forms after the work has been done.
I definitely don't want to tar all vets with the same brush but the propensity to do £5k of investigations (that just happens to be the insurance limit) then suggest some field rest is much more common these days than it was.
Over 20 years I've had a clearer and more honest conversation with insurance taken out of the debate. The range of options given seems to be much wider when you are not insured.
If the fully debated answer is then expensive medical investigations then I will send the vets the claim forms after the work has been done.
I definitely don't want to tar all vets with the same brush but the propensity to do £5k of investigations (that just happens to be the insurance limit) then suggest some field rest is much more common these days than it was.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Just wanted to say to you who are vets, vet nurses. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all you do for our animals.
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Redders
Well-Known Member
That’s ok. Thanks for the apology x
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
Absolutely this. I am convinced there is more 'flexibility' over invoicing in smaller partnerships. Where a treatment might well be protracted and not finite, it therefore might justify some leniency and paring of charges BUT it is at their discretion and rightly so.
Certainly, it's not the vets themselves, but the overheads of running and maintaining the best diagnostics equipment you will want at your disposal. Also, they are on the receiving end of a lot of emotional stuff when it's the end of the line and I am eternally grateful for their empathy and professionalism in every case. Can you put a value on the quite obvious impact it has on them?
I can't deny I feel my heart sink when I know one of my animals is going to generate a vet bill, but it's offset by the 'fix'.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I think its because with vets a lot of the time it comes down to opinion. Its not like a plumber who normally comes along and goes there's your issue and fixes it. With horses, often its trial and error trying to figure out what the issues is (unless its obvious of course). And I think all horse people generally have big opinions when it comes to their own horses. I have some great vets, I actually specifically request 2 vets if its to do with my horses whereas I dont mind a 3rd vet if its my dog or cat that needs seen. But Ive also experienced some vets who were pretty useless, even just the way they handled the horse you could tell they werent cut out for big animals. Sometimes they'll suggest things and you know full well it wont work. I discuss things with my vets, Im not afraid to openly question something, as long as they can explain their decisions/suggestions well enough then I have no problem. But I wont just go along with every single thing they say if I dont agree with it. I wouldnt openly bash them on a forum or anywhere else though to be fair!