Watchdog!

[KellysCobs]

Where did I put that I fell off woody .. Would be quite interested to know as I don't actually ride
Yes I was yanked while leading him to the field.
I only know what Lisa has told me from her point of view so I can't be sure what you offered her/what she has of hasn't accepted as I stated before. Although I would believe Lisa over you any day. I saw his advert/videos of him while for sale so I also know what you advertised him as.

I stand corrected and my mistake you didnt say you rode him, my apologies. Yes we did make videos of him as believed him to be of riding age and if honest still do.

Regards

David

 

[co-jack]

hello David,
Sorry to hear of your troubles!
I bought flaxen 13yr old absolutley stunning mare.
Yes she was a little over weight but not as much as the video of her on you tube she looked alot fatter on there and shorter! a bit like me when i have a photo taken i'm not really that fat! lol x
Anyway she is as kellys cobs described, good weight carrier, hacking horse, steady edy type. iv taken her over canal bridges, through woods, on busy main roads and she was very good just spooked at a leaf blowing! haha!
Kelly did warn me she can be pushy in the stable but just needs correcting, yes true and she's easily corrected.
some baby calfs appeared in the next field a couple of days after she first arrived and she panicked alot for 4 days coming in and out of the field she's fine now tho, pigs will be arriving soon! happy days! :-\
she has got a bad case of mites but this is being sorted by the vet as well as up to date jabs. She's been wormed and i think her tummy has gone down alot....but a few of the girls on the yard have said she might be in foal eeek! ill keep you posted on that one!
so iv had her for nearly 3 weeks and so far so good.
I still cant belive my luck she's perfect in every way, id say she should have been worth about £2,500 watch dog has got me thinking why was she only £1,650 is it too good to be true or am i just a very lucky gal!!

 

[KellysCobs]

We bought a pony from kellys cobs and she is super! We saw a pony advertised by them on horsemart and phoned to get further details about him. Spoke to David who asked me what we wanted the pony for and he told us he had 4 or 5 on the yard who may suit our purpose. When we got there we were shown around by lovely girl (sorry can't remember her name). Asked us exactly what we wanted we told her a safe hack for mum (me), something for my 13 year old daughter to do pony club and horse ball on, and lastly it had to be fairly bombproof as my 20 year old disabled daughter would also be riding occasionally. She then showed us 4 ponies she thought would suit. Tried Billy first as he was the one we had seen on horsemart. He was demonstrated to us 1st by young guy then my 13 year old daughter got on. He was fine not naughty in any way but a bit strong so guy said think he may be too much for your other daughter let's try the next one.
Next was dolls and this is the one we bought she was demonstrated again 1st then my daughter rode then me. Then we took her for hack past loads of really scary stuff that she did not turn a hair at. Then my daughter rode her in school again then we practised getting on and off on wrong side in clumsy manner which is how disabled daughter has to mount and dismount pony stood perfectly still not bothered in the slightest. Then asked if we could pop her over a couple of jumps, fine no problem. Went in stable looked her all over good as gold. Price was £2000 less than you would expect to pay and the reason is overshot at the knees obviously been down on the road at some time. Spoke to David about her history she had been bought at auction described as quiet, good in traffic, also drives. Sold at auction with warranty. He showed us passport. He then explained kellys cobs warranty to us we asked about vetting, we were a bit concerned about the knees. We asked if our vet could come to his yard, yes that was fine, he would just ask us to leave a deposit and he would withdraw the horse from sale until vet had been. In the end we decided to have her vetted at home our vet tried every which way to make her go lame on those knees but without success. Passed vetting, age was correct in fact she does everything we were told she did and more. Yes she may be more at risk of arthritis as she ages but let's face it arthritis could happen to any horse. We are fairly experienced and did spend a whole afternoon doing everything we could think of with the pony but it was no problem with the people at kellys cobs they could not have been more helpful and encouraged us to give the pony a proper trial. I would certainly consider buying another horse from them. I will also be writing to watchdog as I think the programme was totally unfair. I also have to say that during our 2 visits to their yard all the horses looked extremely well cared for and certainly not mistreated in any way. The staff were in full knowledge of all their likes and dislikes and in my experience this only comes from spending considerable time with an animal. Good luck for the future kellys cobs!

If your single would you consider a marriage proposal ? Thanks so much for taking the time to write that and would be very interested in the response if any you get from Watchdog.

Regards

David

 

[KellysCobs]

hello David,
Sorry to hear of your troubles!
I bought flaxen 13yr old absolutley stunning mare.
Yes she was a little over weight but not as much as the video of her on you tube she looked alot fatter on there and shorter! a bit like me when i have a photo taken i'm not really that fat! lol x
Anyway she is as kellys cobs described, good weight carrier, hacking horse, steady edy type. iv taken her over canal bridges, through woods, on busy main roads and she was very good just spooked at a leaf blowing! haha!
Kelly did warn me she can be pushy in the stable but just needs correcting, yes true and she's easily corrected.
some baby calfs appeared in the next field a couple of days after she first arrived and she panicked alot for 4 days coming in and out of the field she's fine now tho, pigs will be arriving soon! happy days! :-\
she has got a bad case of mites but this is being sorted by the vet as well as up to date jabs. She's been wormed and i think her tummy has gone down alot....but a few of the girls on the yard have said she might be in foal eeek! ill keep you posted on that one!
so iv had her for nearly 3 weeks and so far so good.
I still cant belive my luck she's perfect in every way, id say she should have been worth about £2,500 watch dog has got me thinking why was she only £1,650 is it too good to be true or am i just a very lucky gal!!

Dont let Watchdog ruin your enjoyment of Flaxen, I know your a stress head from the texts I had from you after sale lol. Seriously Im so pleased youve bonded with her, was a little worried to start and your partner looked like he could go a few rounds so wasnt looking forward to that lol, Im joking you were both great and thanks for taking the time to post. xx

 

[platypus]

hello David,
Sorry to hear of your troubles!
I bought flaxen 13yr old absolutley stunning mare.
Yes she was a little over weight but not as much as the video of her on you tube she looked alot fatter on there and shorter! a bit like me when i have a photo taken i'm not really that fat! lol x
Anyway she is as kellys cobs described, good weight carrier, hacking horse, steady edy type. iv taken her over canal bridges, through woods, on busy main roads and she was very good just spooked at a leaf blowing! haha!
Kelly did warn me she can be pushy in the stable but just needs correcting, yes true and she's easily corrected.
some baby calfs appeared in the next field a couple of days after she first arrived and she panicked alot for 4 days coming in and out of the field she's fine now tho, pigs will be arriving soon! happy days! :-\
she has got a bad case of mites but this is being sorted by the vet as well as up to date jabs. She's been wormed and i think her tummy has gone down alot....but a few of the girls on the yard have said she might be in foal eeek! ill keep you posted on that one!
so iv had her for nearly 3 weeks and so far so good.
I still cant belive my luck she's perfect in every way, id say she should have been worth about £2,500 watch dog has got me thinking why was she only £1,650 is it too good to be true or am i just a very lucky gal!!

Sorry dont want to be nasty about your lovely mare as im sure she is, but to me 3 weeks ago you bought a 13yearold overweight, bargy,wormy mare with mites and maybe in foal yet you think this was a good deal?
Overweight seems to be a familiar pattern in davids horses maybe he fattens them up so they are just ploddy, what happens when they become fitter and get more of a handful well i suppose thats not his problem thats not how he sold it ?

 

[KellysCobs]

Sorry dont want to be nasty about your lovely mare as im sure she is, but to me 3 weeks ago you bought a 13yearold overweight, bargy,wormy mare with mites and maybe in foal yet you think this was a good deal?
Overweight seems to be a familiar pattern in davids horses maybe he fattens them up so they are just ploddy, what happens when they become fitter and get more of a handful well i suppose thats not his problem thats not how he sold it ?

Must say Platypus your not coming over as a fan, but again I will take the rough with the smooth. Is there anything positive Ive written or are you not willing to consider any other view than your own.

Regards

David

 

[KellysCobs]

Sorry dont want to be nasty about your lovely mare as im sure she is, but to me 3 weeks ago you bought a 13yearold overweight, bargy,wormy mare with mites and maybe in foal yet you think this was a good deal?
Overweight seems to be a familiar pattern in davids horses maybe he fattens them up so they are just ploddy, what happens when they become fitter and get more of a handful well i suppose thats not his problem thats not how he sold it ?

To comment on your overweight point, on facebook Ive been accused of staving my horses and there all skinny wrecks so Ill take this comment, thanks. Seriously in your first post you accuse me of mealy turning horses round for a quick buck, now your suggesting I have them so long I fatten them up so much it turns them in to ploddy types only to return to there sharp terrible ways once slimmed down. Sorry I dont have a magic fattener that pumps them up overnight. In saying that if you saw my belly on watchdog you could suggest Id been taking it myself.

regards

David

 

[platypus]

Must say Platypus your not coming over as a fan, but again I will take the rough with the smooth. Is there anything positive Ive written or are you not willing to consider any other view than your own.

Regards

David

Fan isnt the term i would use either, and as for taking people views i dont think its a case of this i think its down to fact-Fact you've been caught out selling unfit horses. I have said and will say again i dont think you are out to abuse these horses or mis-sell to the buyers but you have got yourself in a rut a very nice one that makes a profit. You have been shown on national tv doing wrong, i sincerely hope that from now on you take appropriate steps to stop this happening again for the horses and buyers sake.

 

[platypus]

To comment on your overweight point, on facebook Ive been accused of staving my horses and there all skinny wrecks so Ill take this comment, thanks. Seriously in your first post you accuse me of mealy turning horses round for a quick buck, now your suggesting I have them so long I fatten them up so much it turns them in to ploddy types only to return to there sharp terrible ways once slimmed down. Sorry I dont have a magic fattener that pumps them up overnight. In saying that if you saw my belly on watchdog you could suggest Id been taking it myself.

regards

David

No no no, ive never been aware of these accusations of you starving your horses and i dont see this as the case, i dont state you keep them and feed them up i merely stated that you seem to sell over weight horses or from what i have seen, maybe you buy them like this i dont know its not for you and me to argue about its for you to prove everyone else wrong.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

I've got to say, David, I think hats off to you for coming here and answering questions. I did think (see my previous comments) that you might be unreasonable if approached for a refund, in it for the hard sell and all that, but having read your responses I think I was wrong, so apologies. You could have just read the responses and not commented, which a lot would have done, and I do still think (like the original post I made) that WD didn't do things especially well. Added to this, so the rumour goes that you are banned from running a company- would admitting your active involvement and the stuff on WD not land you in an awful lot of hot water? If so, then again, it's good of you to risk your neck clearing things up.

I can see both sides though: the extra money you'd spend getting a horse vetted would need to be added onto your sale price, in a market where not much is selling that's hard. The email you posted about Loppy, you I assume paid around £1000 for (owner wanted £1200) and from the programme I don't think you sold her for that much more. I don't know how long you had her, but obviously there were some costs out of that I assume.

I think therein lies the whole problem with 'cheaper' dealers (I don't mean that in an offensive way)- the whole point of doing it, profit, lies in a quick turnaround and so why would you spend more than you need to? I'm not saying that's something I could do (hence I don't deal horses!) but I can see why this has happened. They need to be in, assessed quick, and sold on asap. Buyer beware. If you get people saying they want a 4 year old for a novice, I personally would say no: but if it's your business, all rested on a profit, I can see why it's tempting to take the sale.

Buyers must take some responsibility too though- if you're novice, and that's what your market generally is David, then why do these novice people not take vets along? I can't afford to take a punt on a grand or two, so if you are novice, don't take advice or a vet, then I don't see how you can complain- you can't put that much trust in cheaper dealers, whose whole point is a quick turnaround. The person with Woody, I'm still unsure how neither you nor David noticed the age from the horses teeth, but since buying him and I assume wanting to keep him, why are you still riding when he's clearly not happy? Turn him away, give him some time to grow up, then start again from basics and groundwork.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Ive just fainted lol. Thank you and what horse was it. One thing has just struck me, would any of you posters like to visit? Your welcome by appointment or unannounced.

Regards

David

Will PM you his name, this being internet and all....

He's been on a fun ride today and was perfect so I've been told!

 

[co-jack]

Platypus,
Do you sugest i demand my money back? Would you demand your money back?
Mites can be sorted
Worms can be sorted
Diet can be sorted
Manners can be sorted
and a foal can be loved!!

She might NOT have had worms, she might NOT be in foal, her manners are easy to correct and her diet is no problem.
If we were all as picky as you there would be a alot more meat for tescos and millions of amazing horses going to waste.
A little bit of time love and money goes along way with any horse.
I enjoy working with horses, some people want it all on a plate, are prepared to put no effort into making a horse right and will pay 5 to 20 grand for 'the perfect horse'
At the end of the day i fell in love with her instantly and i still would have if it was a private sale or dealer, my decision my fault so ill take care of her whatever challenges or illnesses she brings.
If she droped dead tomorow i would be very grateful for the 3 weeks i had with her.

God bless xx

 

[platypus]

No co-jack of course not and im glad you have such a bond and are willing to give a foal love if she is in foal. Sadly not everyone thinks this way has time or experience leaving horses in the wrong hands. Im not here to argue different cases or reasons why and how this happens im just saying horses should be sold as they are wether a stark raving mad cob or a happy hacking arab they shouldnt be sold as something they are not with medical problems.

 

[co-jack]

platypus,

Exactly, and i'm not defending David in any way, just letting people know my experience so far so good.
He has admitted he went wrong and his mistakes were debatable? He is willing to change where he went wrong.
I think the vetting before sale would be a very good idea, include it in the price of the horse, a vetted horse will sell quicker than un-vetted. all comebacks go to the vet I should imagine?

Don't forget it could have been me with the horse that couldn't be ridden, or had a short life, plus i'm not out of the woods yet!! I'm just scratching the surface of getting to know her.

like I said fell in love with her, I bought her and ill stand by that.

God bless xx

 

[The wife]

I have personally met Kelly herself and found her to be a very sweet and kind albeit naive young lady who is trying to run a business what I genuinely believe to be the correct way again naively and influenced by her 'business partner'. She always came across as sympathetic to the horses in her care and had a gentle persona around them.

David on the other hand (who I have purchased animals from before a few years ago, I can only say one thing) avoid like the absolute plague. I found him pushy, rude, obnoxious and cruel. When I viewed said animal he was sat astride a pony of no more than 13hh. I saw horses tied up not allowed access to food or water, unrugged and clipped out in the middle of winter. Puppies penned together stood ankle deep in their own faeces, obviously ill, starving and without their mothers or water. The horses i bought were not correctly passported, vaccs or wormed. What sort of person does that?

I have heard stories from a close friend who has witnessed this gentleman buying obviously lame horses straight from York sales and within days advertising and selling them on as sound and ready to compete.

I completely appreciate the way you are going about things on here and trying to make right of a bad situation (and i will say you did come across very well on Watchdog) and justifying yourself on here and answering questions but as somebody else stated, does a leopard really change its spots? Also I'm confused as to why you were questioned on the programme and not Kelly (assuming she is the company owner) as I thought you were not allowed to be a Company director after the last 'incident'...

 

[KellysCobs]

I have personally met Kelly herself and found her to be a very sweet and kind albeit naive young lady who is trying to run a business what I genuinely believe to be the correct way again naively and influenced by her 'business partner'. She always came across as sympathetic to the horses in her care and had a gentle persona around them.

David on the other hand (who I have purchased animals from before a few years ago, I can only say one thing) avoid like the absolute plague. I found him pushy, rude, obnoxious and cruel. When I viewed said animal he was sat astride a pony of no more than 13hh. I saw horses tied up not allowed access to food or water, unrugged and clipped out in the middle of winter. Puppies penned together stood ankle deep in their own faeces, obviously ill, starving and without their mothers or water. The horses i bought were not correctly passported, vaccs or wormed. What sort of person does that?

I have heard stories from a close friend who has witnessed this gentleman buying obviously lame horses straight from York sales and within days advertising and selling them on as sound and ready to compete.

I completely appreciate the way you are going about things on here and trying to make right of a bad situation (and i will say you did come across very well on Watchdog) and justifying yourself on here and answering questions but as somebody else stated, does a leopard really change its spots? Also I'm confused as to why you were questioned on the programme and not Kelly (assuming she is the company owner) as I thought you were not allowed to be a Company director after the last 'incident'...

Well this is a interesting one. After all that you claim you saw you still went on to purchase from me ? Me sat on a 13 hand pony. Hmmm I think the best way to answer this is not enter into a direct tick for tat argument with this poster but to say I have never had a horse cruelty case against me by the courts trading standards or the RSPCA.

Regards

David

 

[JulesRules]

Not that I have a suspicious nature but I find it interesting that the two recent posters with positive reviews seem to have come from nowhere and have only posted in this thread....

Having said that I am open minded about Kelly's Cobs. The Watchdog investigation was definitely flawed and respect to David for coming on here to tell his side of the story.

David - I really hope your motives for doing so are genuine.

 

[The wife]

Well this is a interesting one. After all that you claim you saw you still went on to purchase from me ? Me sat on a 13 hand pony. Hmmm I think the best way to answer this is not enter into a direct tick for tat argument with this poster but to say I have never had a horse cruelty case against me by the courts trading standards or the RSPCA.

Regards

David

The animal In question was a decent enough sort at a reasonable price, considering his severe behavioural problems, which you were not completely honest about, however, we were thankfully experienced and confident enough to sort out ourselves. I do admit buyer beware and had the full extent of his issues had been apparent at the time of sale, we certainly wouldn't have gone through with it. The passport for him was never actually received.

Not perhaps a horse cruelty case but may I be as brash to say that you have had cruelty towards dogs case against you?

 

[DragonSlayer]

Not that I have a suspicious nature but I find it interesting that the two recent posters with positive reviews seem to have come from nowhere and have only posted in this thread....

Having said that I am open minded about Kelly's Cobs. The Watchdog investigation was definitely flawed and respect to David for coming on here to tell his side of the story.

David - I really hope your motives for doing so are genuine.

I'm not recent! and what I say is true....

 

[TrasaM]

I think mr Thomas is playing a blinder here. When confronted with allegations of mis selling horse's he stands his ground and appears reasonable and articulate. Then he comes onto the forum to put his case is a reasonable and articulate manner and seems to have everyone eating out of his hand. Why is it so easy for so many posters to condemn the buyers as stupid and naive and applaud the person behind the sales for being so reasonable and maligned.

Mr David Thomas you are wasted in your current line of business. I'm sure you would have made a most excellent spin doctor on behalf of a political party. one can't help but admire you but I think I'd go elsewhere to buy a horse or puppy.

 

[Natch]

Hi David

I would like to ask;

How long on average is a horse in your hands before being sold on?

What, if any, veterinary attention is given to horses in your care as a matter of routine?

What do you personally do to assess a horse before it is sold?

And what do you do if a horse is returned to you having failed the very for a serious reason?

Many thanks

 

[weebarney]

I think mr Thomas is playing a blinder here. When confronted with allegations of mis selling horse's he stands his ground and appears reasonable and articulate. Then he comes onto the forum to put his case is a reasonable and articulate manner and seems to have everyone eating out of his hand. Why is it so easy for so many posters to condemn the buyers as stupid and naive and applaud the person behind the sales for being so reasonable and maligned.

Mr David Thomas you are wasted in your current line of business. I'm sure you would have made a most excellent spin doctor on behalf of a political party. one can't help but admire you but I think I'd go elsewhere to buy a horse or puppy.

Yup Id agree with this. You dont get onto watchdog for being a nice kind honest person!

 

[KellysCobs]

The animal In question was a decent enough sort at a reasonable price, considering his severe behavioural problems, which you were not completely honest about, however, we were thankfully experienced and confident enough to sort out ourselves. I do admit buyer beware and had the full extent of his issues had been apparent at the time of sale, we certainly wouldn't have gone through with it. The passport for him was never actually received.

Not perhaps a horse cruelty case but may I be as brash to say that you have had cruelty towards dogs case against you?

Hi can I ask what issues you had with the horse and you say I wasn't completely honest about the horse could you kindly elaborate on that. I am the first to admit big errors were made in my past and I was prosecuted for dog paperwork being incorrect and falsified. I will also add that I served a two year prison sentence for the above. So yes crime committed penalty served.



Regards

David

 

[Natch]

Ps Not all dealers are as awful as many on here would believe. I bought my first horse from a dealer, with advice from a knowledgeable horse person (my YO) who knew that dealer personally, and she had a good reputation. He was my horse of a lifetime. And to add to the controversy over a 4 year old suitable for a child, my lad had been purchased from the same dealer (nowt to do with kellys cobs by the way) by his previous owner as a 3 year old because she wanted something safe to ride and lead her child from. She initially liked him but walked away because he was too young, but came back because she couldn't find another horse who was that sensible! He went back to the dealer when child did not need to be on the lead rein, which is when I got him. I would use that dealer again in a heartbeat.

 

[Hunter93]

Is it really Kelly's cobs? I'm surprised the businesses would comment since bad publicity until things got sorted.

 

[The wife]

Hi can I ask what issues you had with the horse and you say I wasn't completely honest about the horse could you kindly elaborate on that. I am the first to admit big errors were made in my past and I was prosecuted for dog paperwork being incorrect and falsified. I will also add that I served a two year prison sentence for the above. So yes crime committed penalty served.



Regards

David

He was a severe bucker. I'm sure that you wouldn't have 'knowingly' sold one of those for a young teenager would you?

Are you able to now elaborate on my comment about purchasing obviously lame horses from the sales and advertising them within days as sound and ready to compete? Do you have a magic cure for this?

May I also ask who your vet is? As they seem to be taking a fair bit of brunt from yourselves when it comes to passing animals as fit and healthy and ageing... Personally I'd be very worried if they were making that sort of errors.

As for the health and conditions of the puppies, I may be so brash again as to suggest that perhaps if one keeps one set of animals that are only there for money purposes that maybe there may be some truth in my so called 'accusations' about the state of the horses too? That were also there for making a quick buck.

 

[KellysCobs]

Hi David

I would like to ask;

How long on average is a horse in your hands before being sold on?

What, if any, veterinary attention is given to horses in your care as a matter of routine?

What do you personally do to assess a horse before it is sold?

And what do you do if a horse is returned to you having failed the very for a serious reason?

Many thanks

Hi. The length of time a horse is with us depends and varies greatly. Some we have sold within hours a good example was a black warmblood we sold a few weeks ago. The customer was at our yard when the horse arrived she liked the look of it and asked about it. I explained what the private seller had told us about the horse but as of yet we hadn't tried it but was happy to do so while she was there. The horse went as expected and the client purchased fully aware we knew only what the she saw herself on the first try of the horse. However normal practice is to access the horse over a week or so. If and when a horse is returned for failing vet may resell the horse put would always make the buyer aware of any problems. A vet failure does not mean a horse has to be shot. It may be suitable as a light hack broodmare etc. for those who follow us they will remember a horse called vinnie a stunning horse that had ring bone. We had the horse a year fully explaining the ringbone in all our adverts and to all customers. Yes it but most off but after a year we found him a great home as a light hack and he is still going great guns today.

Regards

David

 

[KellysCobs]

Is it really Kelly's cobs? I'm surprised the businesses would comment since bad publicity until things got sorted.

Yes this is David from kellyscobs the fat sod featured in the program. Why would we not comment. I'm here to be shot at and defend myself and kellyscobs. I can't do that by hiding away.

Regards

 

[platypus]

Hi. The length of time a horse is with us depends and varies greatly. Some we have sold within hours a good example was a black warmblood we sold a few weeks ago. The customer was at our yard when the horse arrived she liked the look of it and asked about it. I explained what the private seller had told us about the horse but as of yet we hadn't tried it but was happy to do so while she was there. The horse went as expected and the client purchased fully aware we knew only what the she saw herself on the first try of the horse. However normal practice is to access the horse over a week or so. If and when a horse is returned for failing vet may resell the horse put would always make the buyer aware of any problems. A vet failure does not mean a horse has to be shot. It may be suitable as a light hack broodmare etc. for those who follow us they will remember a horse called vinnie a stunning horse that had ring bone. We had the horse a year fully explaining the ringbone in all our adverts and to all customers. Yes it but most off but after a year we found him a great home as a light hack and he is still going great guns today.

Regards

David

You only answered the 1st question there

this is what was asked
How long on average is a horse in your hands before being sold on?

What, if any, veterinary attention is given to horses in your care as a matter of routine?

What do you personally do to assess a horse before it is sold?

And what do you do if a horse is returned to you having failed the very for a serious reason?

 

[DragonSlayer]

Then he comes onto the forum to put his case is a reasonable and articulate manner and seems to have everyone eating out of his hand.

Talking about a positive experience is not 'eating out' of his hand. I've shared the experience my relative had, so that's all I need to do.

I'm done now, I can see this just getting worse and worse.