XL Bullies not banned in Scotland

[Jenko109]

If people cannot bother their arse to keep a dog on a lead and muzzled and registered then the blood I am afraid in my eyes is on their hands not the governments, if the restriction was put on lurchers you can bet your bottom dollar I would jump through every hoop I had to to make sure my Maz had the best life I could give her within those restrictions.

This

The dogs are in rescue because of the people who have failed them.

The breeders who cared only for the money and the owner who purchased that puppy, failed in their duty as a dog owner and have now washed their hands of it. Neither of those people care about the part they have played and are probably the same people kicking off on FB.

 

[skinnydipper]

deleted.

 

[limestonelil]

I don't think it says anything about you! I do think the black ones look gorgeous, I think it was just a bit of irresponsible breeding in this particular area.

I definitely should have added way more caveats WRT the black dog thing, so let me rephrase.

I have been told a number of times that some dogs find the facial expressions of fully black dogs harder to read. This leads to some black dogs having more negative interactions with other dogs, which in turn can make them more fearful or aggressive in their interactions. I was told this can create a vicious cycle where a black dog gives subtle back off signals, which other dogs can't read/ignore, so they have to make their reactions bigger in order to be sure that other dogs will understand them.

Obviously this doesn't apply to all dogs/all black dogs, and I can't find any peer reviewed evidence for this! So perhaps it's not true!

 

[limestonelil]

Oops. Didn't mean to post or quote anything at all. Sorry Wishfilly.

 

[skinnydipper]

I wonder how well things are going to work out in Scotland.

In England in recent weeks many bullies have been rehomed and many of those placements have broken down.

I saw a list of XLs in rescue centres in England looking for homes, the majority appeared to need a no pet, no kids home.

 

[[135546]]

the majority appeared to need a no pet, no kids home.

FWIW it seems MOST dogs in rescues these days need this. Which is why people then end up getting foreign rescues - the requirements are far less stringent.

 

[skinnydipper]

FWIW it seems MOST dogs in rescues these days need this. Which is why people then end up getting foreign rescues - the requirements are far less stringent.

Thinking about this post of yours, which do you think is the way to go? UK or overseas rescue?

humane euthanasia is by far and away the more animal-centric solution. Rehoming or relocating just causes stress and is focused on what the humans want, rather than what the animals need.

 

[[135546]]

Honestly, I don't know. Both have pros and cons, and I think both need to be more regulated

 

[Gloi]

Overseas rescues need to be much more stringent about vaccinations and quarantine because of diseases being brought in from them.

 

[[135546]]

Yes and also do better checks on the dog experience of adopters (because let's be honest how many UK homes are really set up for dogs with a significant % LGD/ovcharka or related breed in them?)

 

[AmyMay]

Yes and also do better checks on the dog experience of adopters

And actually have back up in the UK for when things go wrong.

 

[[135546]]

It seems the unfortunate situation is the two types of rescue (UK versus overseas) exist at polar extremes - UK with so many requirements and hoops to jump through a large number of people get turned away; abroad with so few unsuitable people end up taking dogs even experienced homes would struggle with - with quite disastrous results. Never mind that bringing already traumatised, often little-socialised dogs on long, intercontinental journeys just further traumatises them.

 

[[135546]]

Incidentally, I've always wondered why foreign rescues don't focus on creating systemic change in the countries they work in rather than focus on getting individual dogs out. Surely cultural changes around correct TNR and vaccination programs for strays and implicating humane euthanasia in kill shelters - rather than some of the barbaric methods actually used - would be better for the animals in the long run.
The cynic in me says it's money, but I don't actually know if that's true.

 

[skinnydipper]

And actually have back up in the UK for when things go wrong.

When overseas rescue dogs placements fail they often end up in UK rescues and take up places there.

 

[Gloi]

Incidentally, I've always wondered why foreign rescues don't focus on creating systemic change in the countries they work in rather than focus on getting individual dogs out. Surely cultural changes around correct TNR and vaccination programs for strays and implicating humane euthanasia in kill shelters - rather than some of the barbaric methods actually used - would be better for the animals in the long run.
The cynic in me says it's money, but I don't actually know if that's true.

I'm pretty sure some foreign rescues aren't rescues but puppy farms.

 

[[135546]]

I'm pretty sure some foreign rescues aren't rescues but puppy farms.

It really wouldn't surprise me

 

[skinnydipper]

It seems the unfortunate situation is the two types of rescue (UK versus overseas) exist at polar extremes - UK with so many requirements and hoops to jump through a large number of people get turned away; abroad with so few unsuitable people end up taking dogs even experienced homes would struggle with - with quite disastrous results. Never mind that bringing already traumatised, often little-socialised dogs on long, intercontinental journeys just further traumatises them.

Yes and also do better checks on the dog experience of adopters (because let's be honest how many UK homes are really set up for dogs with a significant % LGD/ovcharka or related breed in them?)

I seem to recall that you have 2 Romanian rescues, one of which is a Carpathian Shepherd.

 

[[135546]]

That's correct - she's also the reason I think it needs better regulation, for the good of the animals. Taking animals on long journeys to new homes in different countries which aren't really set up to deal with large influxes of imported pets when there is already more pets than homes over here does not benefit them. The carpathian is a gorgeous animal now but it's taken years of (literal) blood, sweat and tears to get her to this point. IMO it would have been less distress all round if she'd stayed with the Romanian rescuer rather than be brought across Europe.
Her mother was pulled from a kill shelter where the method of "euthanasia" definitely wasn't a "good death"; she'd given birth to two pups there, one of which is now our girl. But coming to the UK really messed her up and she's a big dog, a breed many rescues here have no experience with, and was shuttled between several as they didn't feel competent to deal with a guardy, anxious LGD. Surely it would be better if the Romanian strays were neutered and released than what that single canine family ended up going through? Better the pups had not been born at all - and I speak as someone who owns and loves a Romanian 'rescue'. Similarly to how we are now trying to prevent the birth of Bully XL pups.

ETA for spelling and grammar
(Blame the Baileys!)

 

[[135546]]

I will also say, the rescue we got her from claimed to offer RBU but really, when we were at the end of our tether with ours we knew it would be persevere or PTS - and if she'd kept biting and going into blind panics as she used to, we would have done that than move her on again because more upheaval would have destroyed her.

 

[skinnydipper]

Taking animals on long journeys to new homes in different countries which aren't really set up to deal with large influxes of imported pets when there is already more pets than homes over here does not benefit them.

Right, so you brought two over?

 

[[135546]]

Right, so you brought two over?

No, she was already in this country, with an English rescue. Didn't known she was Romanian until we met her, then went backwards to find out why she was messed up.

 

[[135546]]

To clarify:

> dog born at KS in Romanian
> Pulled from KS by Romanian rescuer
> Brought over to UK by an English Rescue
> Sent to another rescue as they didn't feel they could cope with her
> Adopted by us not originally aware she was Romanian (she was advertised as a leonberger cross, had never heard of Carpatins prior to Google lensing her photo).
> At our request the rescue we got her from put us in touch with the Romanian lady who filled in the details I was very, very ignorant about foreign rescues until actually several weeks into owning her - my fault really. I never saw myself getting one, but UK rescues had almost nothing able to live with at the time two children <16, another dog, and cats, but having just lost one dog and the remaining one really wasn't coping at all.

Bearing in mind she was 2 when we got her, it's an awful lot for any dog to go through. It's no wonder she was so neurotic and a big reason why I think foreign rescue imports ought to be stopped entirely until better regulations are in place, alongside the glaring issues it poses to public human and animal health (brucella etc.).

 

[skinnydipper]

No, she was already in this country, with an English rescue. Didn't known she was Romanian until we met her, then went backwards to find out why she was messed up.

Sorry, this is confusing. Did you already have Ellie, the Carpathian, and then bring in another from Romania. It seems odd to do that when you don't feel it is in their best interests.

Never mind that bringing already traumatised, often little-socialised dogs on long, intercontinental journeys just further traumatises them.

 

[[135546]]

See clarification above; she wasn't directly brought in by us. ALso not sure where you got two from? I do think compassion should not have borders but it needs to be properly regulated for the good of both people and pets, which at the moment it is not.

 

[skinnydipper]

See clarification above; she wasn't directly brought in by us. ALso not sure where you got two from?

Piticu?

 

[skinnydipper]

I've deleted this post Nykur, but we can continue the discussion if you wish.

 

[SilverLinings]

Incidentally, I've always wondered why foreign rescues don't focus on creating systemic change in the countries they work in rather than focus on getting individual dogs out. Surely cultural changes around correct TNR and vaccination programs for strays and implicating humane euthanasia in kill shelters - rather than some of the barbaric methods actually used - would be better for the animals in the long run.
The cynic in me says it's money, but I don't actually know if that's true.

It really wouldn't surprise me

I posted on another thread before (possibly the brucellosis one?) that there was an investigation by journalists (about 1yr+ ago IIRC) into 'rescues' being imported into the UK from Eastern Europe. The investigation found that there is significant involvement by organised crime, with dogs being bred, stolen and caught off the streets and then sold to 'rescue' charities to be taken to the UK. In some cases the UK 'rescue' person/charity is directly involved in the scam. Basically, enterprising criminals spotted a market and were quick to exploit it, especially as the 'product' can be acquired for free.

I expect all the larger, UK registered rescues are acting legitimately, but I would want to know whether they are paying anything to get the dogs supposedly 'released' from the pound/kill shelter or to locals for supposedly catching them off the streets. If they were then I would be suspicious (although I wouldn't currently chose to get a dog that way anyway, particularly with the disease risk).

 

[MuddyMonster]

I have a Eastern European rescue dog - although he was already in the UK

Wouldn't do it again, if I'm honest but I do know people who have ended up with straight forward dogs - we just weren't one of them! But I also do think some of the UK rescue centre restrictions on who can re-home were ridiculous (we tried so hard to rescue in the UK) & probably contribute to the number of dog's still in rescue.

 

[maya2008]

The country I grew up in has not yet banned any breeds. Why, you might ask? I think part of it, is that most people there treat breed characteristics very seriously. When I lived there as a child, ‘pet’ dogs were breeds designed as such - and universally small. Anything else was kept outside and handled by competent adults only. The Police are pretty useless so most houses in middle class areas and above (and many businesses) have guard dogs. Those guard dogs are of appropriate breeds and are introduced to visitors carefully. Working dogs of other types were also kept and worked, but they were not pets.

My childhood riding stables had a gorgeous, huge Doberman who would lean against my mother for cuddles while I rode, but once the gates were locked at night knew his job. There were a pair of Dobermans guarding the local wood yard, and a variety of Dobermans, Rotties and GSDs guarding local houses. I remember the Rottweilers being particularly vicious as you walked past their respective houses, throwing themselves at their gates/fences as they barked. My dog was terrified of them! Luckily, thanks to their training, any random escapees would usually go home if you yelled ‘Home’ (in their language) sternly at them while meeting them off their property.

 

[[135546]]

The country I grew up in has not yet banned any breeds. Why, you might ask? I think part of it, is that most people there treat breed characteristics very seriously. When I lived there as a child, ‘pet’ dogs were breeds designed as such - and universally small. Anything else was kept outside and handled by competent adults only. The Police are pretty useless so most houses in middle class areas and above (and many businesses) have guard dogs. Those guard dogs are of appropriate breeds and are introduced to visitors carefully. Working dogs of other types were also kept and worked, but they were not pets.

My childhood riding stables had a gorgeous, huge Doberman who would lean against my mother for cuddles while I rode, but once the gates were locked at night knew his job. There were a pair of Dobermans guarding the local wood yard, and a variety of Dobermans, Rotties and GSDs guarding local houses. I remember the Rottweilers being particularly vicious as you walked past their respective houses, throwing themselves at their gates/fences as they barked. My dog was terrified of them! Luckily, thanks to their training, any random escapees would usually go home if you yelled ‘Home’ (in their language) sternly at them while meeting them off their property.

out of interest what country was this?