inandout
Well-Known Member
Restrictions are different than bans though, xls will end up illegal and then attract the wrong people as a status symbol. Gsds r rescticted in ireland yet still account for a large number of abandoned dogs.
XL Bullies not banned in Scotland
- Thread starter cloverlea
- Start date
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
You mean they haven't already?
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
Yes, I sort of meant that the restrictions on a breed where there are other obvious purposes makes sense.
Banning a breed where there aren’t also makes sense to me.
They are already generally in the wrong hands, and their primary purposes for being bred are a bit dodgy, aren’t they.
inandout
Well-Known Member
They banned filas in 1991 none were im uk, filas exist in uk today, check out instagram tiktok ect.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
AFAIK restricted breeds that end up in the pound in RoI have to be released to their owners or to a rescue rather than being able to be rehomed direct to members of the public. If not they are PTS.
But I'm not sure of the point being made.
As before - what are the XL bully supporters doing to prove that the ban is unwarranted? What arguments are they making, what are they doing to prove their dogs are sound/safe. Not sure a big meeting in a park is going to cut it. Utility has it's, er, uses.
But I'm not sure of the point being made.
As before - what are the XL bully supporters doing to prove that the ban is unwarranted? What arguments are they making, what are they doing to prove their dogs are sound/safe. Not sure a big meeting in a park is going to cut it. Utility has it's, er, uses.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Have any inflicted serious harm or killed anyone lately?
inandout
Well-Known Member
I dont see why they have to do anything? There not a working breed they lack drive and athletisicm in majority of cases. Surely showing them none reactive in a public space does show that they not a threat?
U arnt going to title an xl in most sports but neither r you going to title a frenchie. Though of course there r plenty vids of frenchies or xls doing various cool things but they lack the competitive edge. Theres an old vid of a jrt doing ipo too.
Gsds r restricted in ireland, they end up dumped the restrictions dont seem to make there owners more responsible was my only point tbh.
U arnt going to title an xl in most sports but neither r you going to title a frenchie. Though of course there r plenty vids of frenchies or xls doing various cool things but they lack the competitive edge. Theres an old vid of a jrt doing ipo too.
Gsds r restricted in ireland, they end up dumped the restrictions dont seem to make there owners more responsible was my only point tbh.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Titles/sports aren't the point. Yes, I've seen all the videos (Claudia Romard and Mr Murphy the JRT, etc etc)
The statistics say that XLs, not Frenchies and JRTs, are seriously injuring and killing people in larger numbers (being quite drivey and athletic in the videos I've seen).
It's the responsibility of breeders/owners/enthusiasts to prove why a ban is unwarranted. What have they got to say? What are the good points? Where is the breed club? It just seems to some disparate groups saying that it's not fair.
If someone wants a family dog, there are plenty of other options.
A GSD, for example, has lots of other different attributes/talents, SAR, Guide Dogs, they have proven lineage etc.
I don't think the current model of BSL in GB is working/workable, but if you're going to keep citing GSDs as an example, you are continually missing the mark. As Roy Walker would say, it's good, but it's not right. Where are people who are
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inandout
Well-Known Member
Im not a xl owner and dont even know if theres a uk breed club. But the xl community has consitently made the point the dogs r bred to be companion dogs. They;ve also debated wether the dogs invoved in attacks were all xls or simply a pit mix/mastiff mix/american bulldog mix ect. If gsds were suddenly involved in large scale negative press and the media were classing gsds and bsds together im sure the defence wud be the same from both gsd and bsd people lol. The x people also raised 170k to oppose the ban which has led to a judicial review in january. I guess that shows a pretty high level of support for the breed.
Gsds r probaby the ultimate versatile working dog which was there original purpose, but xls are just pet/show dogs and far less established. U must hate my gsd xl comparisions but i really do not have an issue with gsds and wud really like them not to go the way of xls in a few decades or less time.
Gsds r probaby the ultimate versatile working dog which was there original purpose, but xls are just pet/show dogs and far less established. U must hate my gsd xl comparisions but i really do not have an issue with gsds and wud really like them not to go the way of xls in a few decades or less time.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I don't hate them, it's just that they're not always right or true 
inandout
Well-Known Member
I see gsds as a dog that was created froma variety of founding bitches bred heavily to a male line. There was a strong interest in a very trainable dog that has been successful as they r the best for versatility imo. They got wordwide popular and gain some celebrity status with there use in early moves and tv shows as wel as police dogs. They had a bit of name tweeking due to poitical reasons (alsation, asation wolf dog lol) and became popular pets and also as pet/guard dogs. They then started to deveop a bad reputation for aggression and heath issues and there popularity declined to a degree. They were legislated against in some countries but remained consitenty popular. I wud say they have come through the decline and are improved health and temp wise. I see them increasingly popular which is worrying for there safety as a breed.
I see xls as created from a variety of breeds (pits/boxer/all sorts mastiffs) theyve been line bred tight in some ways. Socia media made them popular and just as quickly destroyed them. Yes peope have owned them and bred them badly. Yes the health isnt perfect but all of this is fixable imo with better ownership and breeding practises. But a ban does nothing to promote either. It cuts them off at the point were they cud be improved/revitalised as a breed and estabished as a companion dog as was the originanal intention.
I see the simiarities but appreciate not everyone will and if u love one but not the other I can understand that too.
I see xls as created from a variety of breeds (pits/boxer/all sorts mastiffs) theyve been line bred tight in some ways. Socia media made them popular and just as quickly destroyed them. Yes peope have owned them and bred them badly. Yes the health isnt perfect but all of this is fixable imo with better ownership and breeding practises. But a ban does nothing to promote either. It cuts them off at the point were they cud be improved/revitalised as a breed and estabished as a companion dog as was the originanal intention.
I see the simiarities but appreciate not everyone will and if u love one but not the other I can understand that too.
AmyMay
Situation normal
You seem obsessed with gsd’s
inandout
Well-Known Member
I do like them, I know it must come across bad comparing them to xls but i disagree with the xl ban and comparing them and xls is not meant to bring down or present a negative imagine to gsds at all. I understand everyone on here is opposed to xls but i am not and am simply presenting an alternative view sometimes using the example of a dog that I believe has had a similar (to a point and much longer) history. I dont believe xls have anywhere near the trainablity of gsds or the versatility and I dont think they will ever achieve the same success as a breed as a result (regardless of ban). My whole commentary tonight has been that gsds can be subject to negative publicity and that can lead to breed bans in the same way xs and that is not what I want at all.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
And their PR has been improved by strong lobbying and proof of their utility/versatility.
They were brought to the UK in the main, by British servicemen who saw their qualities, which were already apparent in the early days of the breed.
Now is a time when XL bullies need passionate/articulate supporters to show us the positive impact that XL bullies can make. Because at the minute all I am getting is 'we like the look of them'.
Although registrations are generally on a downward trend, even in the mother country, if you're worried about the GSD gaining in popularity.
They were brought to the UK in the main, by British servicemen who saw their qualities, which were already apparent in the early days of the breed.
Now is a time when XL bullies need passionate/articulate supporters to show us the positive impact that XL bullies can make. Because at the minute all I am getting is 'we like the look of them'.
Although registrations are generally on a downward trend, even in the mother country, if you're worried about the GSD gaining in popularity.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
You do understand why the XLBullies have been subject to legislation, don’t you? You seem to think it’s just because of some bad press…….
And you also understand why GSD’s are not getting the same sort of bad press? A clue: Because they’re not going around attacking people/other dogs/killing people as a routine pass time.
inandout
Well-Known Member
My worry is they at some point become popuar with bad owners and breeders and that causes negative publicity and ultimately legislation against them, This is my concern for any breeed in light of recent bsl. Additionally lets say malinois r taking some of there popularity. Malinois are less adaptable in temp than gsd and less suitable as pets for some people. However to the average person a malinois is a small gsd (no offence to anyone) if mais bite people get bad press get banned will gsds be caught in that? This is the flaw with bsl. Its reactionary.
In terms of registration being down, I dont know if that means less in general or less registered. Registered doesnt seem as meaningful with gsds as once was. Sadly neither do health test. Recenlty saw a £1500 littter not registered and no hip/elbow tests.
People do get dogs cause they ilke the looks. i find gsds realy nice looking dogs especially the working lines for example. Xs not my thing visualy. But I dont see why peope shudnt have a ''pretty;; dog if its temp is ok and suits there lifestye. Xls have breen bred for that. Yes the looks not to everyones taste but ultimately the point was a powerful looking dog with a good temperment.
In terms of registration being down, I dont know if that means less in general or less registered. Registered doesnt seem as meaningful with gsds as once was. Sadly neither do health test. Recenlty saw a £1500 littter not registered and no hip/elbow tests.
People do get dogs cause they ilke the looks. i find gsds realy nice looking dogs especially the working lines for example. Xs not my thing visualy. But I dont see why peope shudnt have a ''pretty;; dog if its temp is ok and suits there lifestye. Xls have breen bred for that. Yes the looks not to everyones taste but ultimately the point was a powerful looking dog with a good temperment.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I am struggling to get my point across: It’s not about some “bad press” it’s about the actual FACT that some breeds of dog bite more people/other dogs, (oh, and also KILL people/other dogs) more than others. It’s not just somebody taking a dislike to a certain breed, it’s not “negative publicity” made up by someone, it’s pure statistics, numbers.
The XLBully isn’t a powerful dog with a good temperament, it’s proven to be a powerful dog with a very unpredictable and aggressive temperament, and THAT’S why it’s subject to legislation. The fact that it’s looks and reputation have made it attractive to people who perhaps shouldn’t be in charge of any dog is actually beside the point. Your fixation with German Shepherds is likewise beside the point since they are not currently causing anything like the same problems. In the event that all the XLBully owners dump their dogs and go out and get a GSD, and then encourage them to attack people and other dogs, then I should imagine that they’ll be subject to the same sort of “bad press” and would need to be regulated in the same way.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I mean I can talk about GSDs all night lol, both they and the Belgian Shepherds are a much older breed with easily identifiable lineage. They have been used extensively for police and in bite sports. I'm not a massive Mali fan, but despite all the bitey stuff and cool films and the sketchy breeding, they are still not seriously injuring or killing people in the same number as XL bullies.
The GSD has already appealed to the wrong types of people, there was decades of it. If there was going to be a ban it would have happened - my point is that it didn't because their usefulness and good points outweighed the bad bits. If they come under a wider ban on dog ownership, then people will have to lobby or deal with it.
You've missed the point again...it's fine to like a dog's looks, it's fine to want a family dog...but when a breed or type is being implicated in such serious incidents, enthusiasts need a little 'more' to use for PR.
There are plenty of stocky, flat faced or bull breeds out there that have the looks and the temperament but are not going biccies and mauling people on what seems like a weekly basis.
You keep saying they have no drive for sports, but they seem to have plenty of drive when aroused by a human or another dog. What good is that type of dog, to anyone?!
The GSD has already appealed to the wrong types of people, there was decades of it. If there was going to be a ban it would have happened - my point is that it didn't because their usefulness and good points outweighed the bad bits. If they come under a wider ban on dog ownership, then people will have to lobby or deal with it.
You've missed the point again...it's fine to like a dog's looks, it's fine to want a family dog...but when a breed or type is being implicated in such serious incidents, enthusiasts need a little 'more' to use for PR.
There are plenty of stocky, flat faced or bull breeds out there that have the looks and the temperament but are not going biccies and mauling people on what seems like a weekly basis.
You keep saying they have no drive for sports, but they seem to have plenty of drive when aroused by a human or another dog. What good is that type of dog, to anyone?!
sassandbells
Well-Known Member
A Mali attacked / injured 5 people on a high street on Thursday, a lot of comments on the Facebook posts are more to do with incompetent owners than the breed which was an interesting contrast the the XL Bully posts!
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
We can cite attacks by lots of different breeds, I've done it myself, my point is, a 200 year old breed which has grown in popularity in recent years thanks to a fad and questionable breeding practices is responsible for less attacks/deaths than a much younger breed which has grown in popularity in recent years thanks to a fad and questionable breeding practices.
At least if you have a headbanger Mali, there are some avenues you can go down before it seriously hurts someone, apparently XL bullies don't have the drive for any sports or civil roles
sassandbells
Well-Known Member
We can cite attacks by lots of different breeds, I've done it myself, my point is, a 200 year old breed which has grown in popularity in recent years thanks to a fad and questionable breeding practices is responsible for less attacks/deaths than a much younger breed which has grown in popularity in recent years thanks to a fad and questionable breeding practices.
At least if you have a headbanger Mali, there are some avenues you can go down before it seriously hurts someone, apparently XL bullies don't have the drive for any sports or civil roles
Oh I agree, I just found the ‘public’ perception of the two breeds fascinating. I have no opinion either way, not a dog owner etc. Much like a lot of posts on this thread, just very interesting to see the different reactions
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Oh I agree, I just found the ‘public’ perception of the two breeds fascinating. I have no opinion either way, not a dog owner etc. Much like a lot of posts on this thread, just very interesting to see the different reactions
At risk of repeating myself, it's nearly always genetics
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
It's just interesting that I'm surrounded by Pitbulls in my city in the US at the moment, and nary an attack (knock on wood).
I see more loose dogs than I'd like to see posted about on the city/community Facebook page though. I live outside of city limits, and there is an old GSD that I've seen trot around on occasion.
Edited for spelling/autocorrect fails.
I see more loose dogs than I'd like to see posted about on the city/community Facebook page though. I live outside of city limits, and there is an old GSD that I've seen trot around on occasion.
Edited for spelling/autocorrect fails.
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Jenko109
Well-Known Member
The whole 'what breed will be next' argument is absurd anyway.
The last ban was over 30 years ago!
You think we haven't had terrible owners owning GSDs, Malinois, Rottweilers, Doberman etc in all those years?
Of course we have! But those breeds, despite some of them existing in this country in far, far higher numbers than the XL Bully, are generally not genetically predisposed to wanting to kill people.
The last ban was over 30 years ago!
You think we haven't had terrible owners owning GSDs, Malinois, Rottweilers, Doberman etc in all those years?
Of course we have! But those breeds, despite some of them existing in this country in far, far higher numbers than the XL Bully, are generally not genetically predisposed to wanting to kill people.
Moobli
Well-Known Member
I actually agree that BSL isn’t the answer to the wider issue. However in the case of XL bullies I do think something needs to be done immediately (such as a ban) then the bigger issues around dog breeding, ownership etc etc should be tackled. I think we all know this is unlikely to happen, sadly.
Arzada
Well-Known Member
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I have seen a couple of FB posts offering private homes in Scotland.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
PSA to anyone who doesn't realise, you might love dogs and be acting out of compassion, but it's generally not a great idea to immediately plonk a new arrival, particularly one who has undergone a stressful experience, in with an existing dog without any downtime/decompression/relaxed introductions in a neutral area....
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Again, people love to set animals up for failure.