XL Bullies not banned in Scotland

[Arzada]

Theres no reaosn xls cant be taken to scotland and rehomed at any point in scotland while they r still legal there. Its not illegal to export them and ony illegal to rehome them in england and wales.

I don't think that this is what Tiddlypom was saying. Their comment was about the misinformation in the photograph ie 'you're not killing these Rishi Sunak, now it's a race to the Scottish border before midnight' Like at midnight all XL Bullies will be PTS.

 

[JBM]

I would assume the dogs were taken from the pound or a rescue?

 

[Cortez]

But isnt that jsut reactionary legislating. U ban a breed, people get killed by another breed you ban that breed, you dont save lives you just change the breed that killed them.

Dogs killing people was an extremely rare event until the numbers took a noticeable jump. Strangely (not) that rise in numbers coincided with the rise in popularity of the XLBully < clue number one. Clue number two > the majority of people losing their lives to dog attacks were killed by - are you paying attention? - XLBullies.

 

[skinnydipper]

I only have so much patience, with people that is. Well done to those of you who are still making the effort to explain.

 

[inandout]

Dogs killing people was an extremely rare event until the numbers took a noticeable jump. Strangely (not) that rise in numbers coincided with the rise in popularity of the XLBully < clue number one. Clue number two > the majority of people losing their lives to dog attacks were killed by - are you paying attention? - XLBullies.

Just cause the media say a dog is a certain breed, especially when that breed grabs headlines, doesnt mean it is.

 

[AmyMay]

Just cause the media say a dog is a certain breed, especially when that breed grabs headlines, doesnt mean it is.

Oh, ok. But if an independent assessment of the dog concluded it was an XL you would be satisfied with that?

 

[inandout]

Oh, ok. But if an independent assessment of the dog concluded it was an XL you would be satisfied with that?

The police have not yet recieved training on how to identify an xl. Defras own definition is pretty vague (big bull type basically) when xls were high profile on attacks but not banned they were big money dogs. This meant lots of people just labeled anything as an xl (staffi mix am bulldog mix pit mix mastiff mix ect) to make some money from the pups. This goes back to my earlier point about gsds and bsds, most lay people say its the same dog. Same with border collies and wesh sheepdogs. So how cud they be identifed then when they still cant be by the police who r meant to enforce al this from tomorrow now?

 

[AmyMay]

The police have not yet recieved training on how to identify an xl. Defras own definition is pretty vague (big bull type basically) when xls were high profile on attacks but not banned they were big money dogs. This meant lots of people just labeled anything as an xl (staffi mix am bulldog mix pit mix mastiff mix ect) to make some money from the pups. This goes back to my earlier point about gsds and bsds, most lay people say its the same dog. Same with border collies and wesh sheepdogs. So how cud they be identifed then when they still cant be by the police who r meant to enforce al this from tomorrow now?

But the police get an independent, professional assessor in to identity the breed.

 

[inandout]

Then why havnt they got that person to write a breed definition or indeed train them in identifying the breed which they r supposed to do from tomorrow?

 

[AmyMay]

Then why havnt they got that person to write a breed definition or indeed train them in identifying the breed which they r supposed to do from tomorrow?

I expect they have in some part. But the police have never assessed (formally) a ‘breed’. They always have an independent assessor.

 

[Arzada]

Check if a dog is an XL Bully

www.gov.uk

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I don't get it. If these people care so much about the dogs and are outraged, then neuter, insure, muzzle, and keep your dog


One of my dogs is a breed that is banned in certain places and/or restricted. If I showed up with her in a place that said she had to wear a muzzle, then she'd wear a muzzle. She's already spayed and insured.

I did read about a place (maybe in Canada) where her breed has restrictions but those can be lifted if the dog passes some sort of temperament test.

 

[inandout]

But that definition is very vague. It literally fits lots of dogs. So if the independant assessor who wrote that was also identifying dogs that killed people the same issue applies. They cudnt identify dogs as xls they just grouped similar dogs under the breed type. The dogs might not have been xl but a totally different breed. My gsds bsds or sheepdog collie example.

 

[ester]

That gets down to what defines it as a 'breed' though, when in essence it is still at the 'type' stage and therefore categorising based on such makes sense.

 

[ester]

Of course there's a gofundme per TP's screenshot above.
'
Sammy is currently driving Day and Night from the Black Country to Scotland, each time taking a group of XL bullies with him and finding them new homes in Scotland.
About 30 dogs so far he's saved and he’s still going!

Sammy will continue to do this for as long as he can. Please everyone let’s support him and lets help save more XL Bullies
'

Donate to Help Sammy Wilkinson save more animals in need", organized by Lisa Lisa

"Help Sammie and his team continue saving animals in need" Sammie and hi… Lisa Lisa needs your support for Help Sammy Wilkinson save more animals in need"

www.gofundme.com

 

[CorvusCorax]

I can't speak for the other breeds but for GSDs, there is absolutely a way to prove that a dog is what it says it is on the tin, linked to their microchip, maybe other breeds, particularly those which could be confused with those 'of type' need to start thinking about an actual registry linked to DNA. Also maybe avoid mixing breeds that would put them at risk of looking 'of type'.

 

[Gloi]

People driving them to Scotland will be encouragement for the Scottish parliament to bring their laws on them into line with England. I'm sure the Scottish people don't want a lot of unwanted dogs dumped there.

 

[AmyMay]

But that definition is very vague. It literally fits lots of dogs. So if the independant assessor who wrote that was also identifying dogs that killed people the same issue applies. They cudnt identify dogs as xls they just grouped similar dogs under the breed type. The dogs might not have been xl but a totally different breed. My gsds bsds or sheepdog collie example.

Quite a few people think it’s vague, but I find it to be quite descriptive. It’s how all breed standards are described.

Any way. It is what it is. Like it or loath it the ‘breed’ responsible for a terrifying spate of attacks and deaths over the past two years has run out of time. I’m genuinely heartbroken for those dogs who find themselves with an owner not prepared to step up for them, and even more so for puppies dumped now facing euthanasia. But I guess it tells us all we need to know about (many) of the people who have owned these dogs.

 

[inandout]

People driving them to Scotland will be encouragement for the Scottish parliament to bring their laws on them into line with England. I'm sure the Scottish people don't want a lot of unwanted dogs dumped there.

I think scotand will wait and see what happens in england. If they do ban they will have a huge increase in xls and no guarante anyone will cooperate anymore than england.

Quite a few people think it’s vague, but I find it to be quite descriptive. It’s how all breed standards are described.

Any way. It is what it is. Like it or loath it the ‘breed’ responsible for a terrifying spate of attacks and deaths over the past two years has run out of time. I’m genuinely heartbroken for those dogs who find themselves with an owner not prepared to step up for them, and even more so for puppies dumped now facing euthanasia. But I guess it tells us all we need to know about (many) of the people who have owned these dogs.

But this was pits 30 yrs ago and there are literally more now than there were then (offical stats via exemption) so its not over and its likely to get worse based on pit stats. Thats my point regardless of what you think of the breed a ban doesnt resolve it.

 

[Cortez]

But that definition is very vague. It literally fits lots of dogs. So if the independant assessor who wrote that was also identifying dogs that killed people the same issue applies. They cudnt identify dogs as xls they just grouped similar dogs under the breed type. The dogs might not have been xl but a totally different breed. My gsds bsds or sheepdog collie example.

As far as I’m aware the XL, and maybe even the pit bull too, isn’t a formally recognised breed anyway? It is indeed a “type”, and is a mix of various things. Why’s that a problem? Any half-competent dog judge could identify one, even I can, and I’m not a trained dog judge. If it walks like a duck…..and so on. All that’s required is a panel of competent people (ref. judges) on call, and a good representative photo.

 

[inandout]

Will the XL Bully ban affect other dogs too? - Full Fact

The government says the ban in England and Wales only applies to XL Bully dogs, but assessment will be based on appearance and physical characteristics.

fullfact.org

 

[Cortez]

Will the XL Bully ban affect other dogs too? - Full Fact

The government says the ban in England and Wales only applies to XL Bully dogs, but assessment will be based on appearance and physical characteristics.

fullfact.org

And? I don’t see anything that hasn’t been discussed at length here.

 

[inandout]

wont just type xls as other breeds are identified as them by the type too, yet still only 6.5k exempted hmm wonder how thats going to play out.
To use a horse example lets say andulcian and Lusitano. Not the same breed, not the same temperment but often confused.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

wont just type xls as other breeds are identified as them by the type too, yet still only 6.5k exempted hmm wonder how thats going to play out.
To use a horse example lets say andulcian and Lusitano. Not the same breed, not the same temperment but often confused.

Very similar horses, genetically. Very similar looking when compared to a cob, a hunter and a thoroughbred. Very similar behaviorally when compared to a cob, a hunter and a thoroughbred. Both not suited to inexperienced homes too. They are often confused because they are legitimately similar.

If the dog is being assessed as to whether it is an XL bully then chances are, it will have been dumped or it will be at the center of an aggressive event. I seriously doubt we are going to have police out in force checking random dogs that might look a bit similar to a XL, who are quietly minding their own business. And if there are complaints, and a dog is deemed to be of a certain type, then it’s going to be required to be on a lead and muzzled. No one is going to put it down unless it’s causing a problem, or its owners have decided that bothering to abide by the rules is too much work.

 

[Cortez]

wont just type xls as other breeds are identified as them by the type too, yet still only 6.5k exempted hmm wonder how thats going to play out.
To use a horse example lets say andulcian and Lusitano. Not the same breed, not the same temperment but often confused.

The PRE and Lusitano have had different stud books only since the 1970’s: they are essentially the same breed and genetics. I’ve owned and trained both, and they are also pretty indistinguishable in temperament, differing along certain lines as in any other breed. I can tell a PSL from a PRE on sight, many people not familiar with the breeds cannot, but it is essentially the same genetics.

If you put a pit bull next to, say, a bullmastiff many non-doggy people wouldn’t know the difference, but any dog person would. The fact that many people haven’t bothered themselves to comply with requirements should play out with a lot of people getting in trouble.

 

[inandout]

The PRE and Lusitano have had different stud books only since the 1970’s: they are essentially the same breed and genetics. I’ve owned and trained both, and they are also pretty indistinguishable in temperament, differing along certain lines as in any other breed. I can tell a PSL from a PRE, many people not familiar with the breeds cannot, but it is essentially the same genetics.

If you put a pit bull next to, say, a bullmastiff many non-doggy people wouldn’t know the difference, but any dog person would. The fact that many people haven’t bothered themselves to comply with requirements should play out with a lot of people getting in trouble.

police dont have rescources https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ations-abandoned-victim-withdrew-support.html

Police give up on four crimes a minute without tracking down culprit

Forces gave up on investigations into 2,306,623 reported crimes in the year to June, including hundreds of thousands of violent offences and burglaries, Home Office figures show.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Cortez]

police dont have rescources https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ations-abandoned-victim-withdrew-support.html

Police give up on four crimes a minute without tracking down culprit

Forces gave up on investigations into 2,306,623 reported crimes in the year to June, including hundreds of thousands of violent offences and burglaries, Home Office figures show.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yes, nothing new there. Your government should do something about it.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Maybe people who don't want to go through the rigmarole of exemption or impoundment should think about purchasing a registered breed from a reputable/responsible breeder with papers and a proven lineage and DNA proof linked to their microchip and then there'd be much less of a faff trying to prove what a dog is or isn't by sight and measuring.

People are putting themselves in a very tricky position by supporting backyard breeders producing pups from God Knows What x Who The Hell Cares, inbred on a freak dog or two, or are they....because nothing is properly recorded.

If the XL bully people truly wanted to create a powerful looking family dog, they should have started by doing things right, from the beginning and maybe laid off the APBT and instead bred in a bit of usefulness so they can do something else to help their case, apart from look a certain way. They haven't and this ban is one of the consequences.

 

[inandout]

But most likely they will carry on regardless and the law will fail as deaths go up.

 

[CorvusCorax]

But most likely they will carry on regardless and the law will fail as deaths go up.

So you're agreeing that these types of dogs are responsible for a higher percentage of deaths then?