XL Bullies not banned in Scotland

[MurphysMinder]

I've just seen one on fb looking for a home for a bitch and several 9 week old pups. A quick look at the posters profile they are posting about their "darling girl" having the litter, obviously were hoping to make a nice bit of dosh but now that has worked they can't even be bothered to register the bitch for exemption.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Why are GSDs restricted in Ireland? I admit, it’s a dog that worries me, although bar nearly having had my hand taken off by a French police dog (might not have been a GSD, I’m no expert), I’ve rarely met a nasty one. Is it their reputation? Akitas too worry me, a cross bit a guy who tried to get it off his rough collie, ended up in A&E and bit Brig, zero provocation.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Its not just GSDs, its quite a long list including rotties, dobes, staffies ,Akitas and a few others too. I think the restrictions came in around the same time as DDA but could be wrong.

 

[Gloi]

Why are GSDs restricted in Ireland? I admit, it’s a dog that worries me, although bar nearly having had my hand taken off by a French police dog (might not have been a GSD, I’m no expert), I’ve rarely met a nasty one. Is it their reputation? Akitas too worry me, a cross bit a guy who tried to get it off his rough collie, ended up in A&E and bit Brig, zero provocation.

Don't know about Ireland. However I was once doing someone's horses for them while they were away and as I was mucking out a gsd came running up very aggressively. I shut the stable door and he stayed outside growling at me if I ever tried to get out. I was trapped until the farmer/owner returned later in the day. I was a lot younger than I am now and not brave enough to fend it off with the muck shovel.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Why are GSDs restricted in Ireland? I admit, it’s a dog that worries me, although bar nearly having had my hand taken off by a French police dog (might not have been a GSD, I’m no expert), I’ve rarely met a nasty one. Is it their reputation? Akitas too worry me, a cross bit a guy who tried to get it off his rough collie, ended up in A&E and bit Brig, zero provocation.

There's a list, it's been discussed extensively.

 

[Cortez]

Why are GSDs restricted in Ireland? I admit, it’s a dog that worries me, although bar nearly having had my hand taken off by a French police dog (might not have been a GSD, I’m no expert), I’ve rarely met a nasty one. Is it their reputation? Akitas too worry me, a cross bit a guy who tried to get it off his rough collie, ended up in A&E and bit Brig, zero provocation.

Why do you think? Because they are quite a bitey breed, hence why they are popular with police forces, as guard dogs, etc. They are fortunately also extremely trainable. Any dog breed on the restricted list is there because they've bitten more people than breeds not on it.

 

[inandout]

Doesn't Ireland have a large number of Mali's now. I follow a few Mali rescues and lots r from Ireland.
By restriction on gsds they just made Mali's popular?
Same with presas and cane croso. So it just moved it from one breed to the next.
Mali's r separate from gsds as a breed but quite often x bred and are similar to the lay person.

 

[JBM]

Doesn't Ireland have a large number of Mali's now. I follow a few Mali rescues and lots r from Ireland.
By restriction on gsds they just made Mali's popular?
Same with presas and cane croso. So it just moved it from one breed to the next.
Mali's r separate from gsds as a breed but quite often x bred and are similar to the lay person.

Restrictions don’t really stop anyone owning them (bar under 16s). I see a lot of gsd everyday but I’ve never actually met a mali in person!
Donegal based just for area. They may be more popular down the country
My dobie is restricted but only thing that changes is she had to wear a muzzle in public. I’ve never had anywhere refuse her such as daycare or holiday boarding.

 

[skinnydipper]

By restriction on gsds they just made Mali's popular?

You don't suppose it's anything to do with films then?

 

[Cortez]

Doesn't Ireland have a large number of Mali's now. I follow a few Mali rescues and lots r from Ireland.
By restriction on gsds they just made Mali's popular?
Same with presas and cane croso. So it just moved it from one breed to the next.
Mali's r separate from gsds as a breed but quite often x bred and are similar to the lay person.

I've seen a few, but there are many more GSD's. Restrictions are not designed to stop people owning, it's supposed to make them responsible.

Malinois are perhaps ending up in rescue when people realise they've taken on more dog than they are prepared to handle.

 

[JBM]

I think mals are kinda like husky’s in they’re pretty and people see them on tv then want one
They get one and realise what the hell they’ve done
Absolute craic heads

 

[CorvusCorax]

Doesn't Ireland have a large number of Mali's now. I follow a few Mali rescues and lots r from Ireland.
By restriction on gsds they just made Mali's popular?
Same with presas and cane croso. So it just moved it from one breed to the next.
Mali's r separate from gsds as a breed but quite often x bred and are similar to the lay person.

It's nothing to do with GSDs being restricted. Boxers were on the list but were removed due to successful lobbying.
Restricting Malis would be interesting as they're one of four types of Belgian Shepherd which have historically been allowed to interbreed. Despite Ireland being awash with poorly bred specimens, they're still not causing the problems that XL bullies are.
They're also very similar to the Dutch herder and plenty are mixes of those two breeds, as well as GSDs.

Like I said at least a Mali can get a sport/security/police home, what other avenue is there for such an allegedly low drive dog?

 

[skinnydipper]

allegedly

 

[maya2008]

I googled ‘dog deaths UK’ . I suspect strongly that ‘What dog will be banned next’ would be - any dog that dominates the statistics on fatalities like the XL has recently. It’s extremely obvious, reading the stats, why the powers that be decided to ban them. Many issues occurred in people’s homes, with dogs known to them - yes those dogs might have been unwell or whatever, and that can happen to any dog, but the difference is, companion breeding or not, these were big enough and dangerous enough to kill. That, sadly, is a documented fact. Those poor people.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Also re Malis, I know and know of a lot of people who got them for sports/security/policing and then switched back to GSDs because they aren't actually healthier (most of them were washed due to health)/easier to train etc etc. There are big problems with nerve and environmental sensitivity in some lines. No point having a great biting dog if it can't cross a slippy floor or go up or down open or spiral stairs or can't handle loud noises.

The other thing is that they come out of the womb like that. XL bullies seem to be very charming puppies, until they're not.

 

[Smitty]

I googled ‘dog deaths UK’ . I suspect strongly that ‘What dog will be banned next’ would be - any dog that dominates the statistics on fatalities like the XL has recently. It’s extremely obvious, reading the stats, why the powers that be decided to ban them. Many issues occurred in people’s homes, with dogs known to them - yes those dogs might have been unwell or whatever, and that can happen to any dog, but the difference is, companion breeding or not, these were big enough and dangerous enough to kill. That, sadly, is a documented fact. Those poor people.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who is killed by their own dog, unless it's sepsis

 

[maya2008]

I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who is killed by their own dog, unless it's sepsis

None of the reports suggest abuse towards the dogs. Often it was visitors who were attacked. The people dying were often pensioners or children or vulnerable adults.

‘A woman died after being attacked by a dog her brother bought to improve her mental health.’
‘A ten year old boy was killed by a dog when visiting a school friend’s house.’
‘Died as a result of injuries sustained in an attack from his dog, whilst unconscious following an epileptic seizure’
‘A man who has Down’s Syndrome was bitten by three dogs at a house…and consequently died at the scene.’
‘A man died after being bitten by his daughter in law’s dog.’
‘A 65 year old woman died after being attacked by multiple dogs at a house.’
‘A woman in her 70s died, after being attacked by the family dog.’

Dogs can be funny around older people and illness/disability. My dad has Parkinson’s. We visited friends at Christmas and one of their dogs was quite growly towards him (he did nothing but stand up from a chair and couldn’t be threatening if he tried, but he has tremors and they could sense something not quite right).

 

[poiuytrewq]

None of the reports suggest abuse towards the dogs. Often it was visitors who were attacked. The people dying were often pensioners or children or vulnerable adults.

‘A woman died after being attacked by a dog her brother bought to improve her mental health.’
‘A ten year old boy was killed by a dog when visiting a school friend’s house.’
‘Died as a result of injuries sustained in an attack from his dog, whilst unconscious following an epileptic seizure’
‘A man who has Down’s Syndrome was bitten by three dogs at a house…and consequently died at the scene.’
‘A man died after being bitten by his daughter in law’s dog.’
‘A 65 year old woman died after being attacked by multiple dogs at a house.’
‘A woman in her 70s died, after being attacked by the family dog.’

Dogs can be funny around older people and illness/disability. My dad has Parkinson’s. We visited friends at Christmas and one of their dogs was quite growly towards him (he did nothing but stand up from a chair and couldn’t be threatening if he tried, but he has tremors and they could sense something not quite right).

I wonder if the tremors were perceived as jerky or nervy movements by the dogs?

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's not unheard of for dogs of any breed to react negatively to an epileptic episode or indeed any medical episode/change in behaviour. In humans and other dogs that they'd previously been fine with.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Fear surely? Fear in a don’t get it way.

 

[AmyMay]

 

[Tiddlypom]

From FB.

Yet another person who doesn’t understand what the new regulations re XL bullies are . Scotland, I hope that you are braced.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I was going to ask this, but didn’t as I’ve not read the whole thread.
A friend just posted that all XL bullies have to be pts tomorrow.
I was sure not but
So basically if I had one (the worlds glad I don’t! Just imagine…!)
Id be allowed to keep it but muzzle outside of my house?

 

[inandout]

Oh, dear. Maybe you should feature on the irresponsible owners thread.

Theres a difference between irresponsible and law abiding.

I actually agree that BSL isn’t the answer to the wider issue. However in the case of XL bullies I do think something needs to be done immediately (such as a ban) then the bigger issues around dog breeding, ownership etc etc should be tackled. I think we all know this is unlikely to happen, sadly.

I think a ban is the wrong move and will backfire. I think if they had brought in a icence to own an xl and a separate to breed them with unlicenced pups being rehomed via rescue to avoid ooops matings making money that wud of had greater compliance and more support. Theres 6.5k exempted atm. but iteraly 100000s dogs can fit the xl type. They r not all dead or in scotland.
If the licence had been brought in it cud then be expanded to other breeds and all dogs in the end. Now if that is brought in or any other thing to encourage responsible ownerhsip and breeding it wont work because everyone will know someone who ignored the xl ban and got away with it. Lets face it the police havnt a chance https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rapists-violent-thugs-burglars-evade-law.html

From FB.

Yet another person who doesn’t understand what the new regulations re XL bullies are . Scotland, I hope that you are braced.

View attachment 131395

Theres no reaosn xls cant be taken to scotland and rehomed at any point in scotland while they r still legal there. Its not illegal to export them and ony illegal to rehome them in england and wales.

 

[AmyMay]

I was going to ask this, but didn’t as I’ve not read the whole thread.
A friend just posted that all XL bullies have to be pts tomorrow.
I was sure not but
So basically if I had one (the worlds glad I don’t! Just imagine…!)
Id be allowed to keep it but muzzle outside of my house?

As long as you have an exemption certificate, it’s neutered and insured - then yes it doesn’t have to be destroyed. It would have to be muzzled and on a lead when outside the home (including in the car).

 

[inandout]

I googled ‘dog deaths UK’ . I suspect strongly that ‘What dog will be banned next’ would be - any dog that dominates the statistics on fatalities like the XL has recently. It’s extremely obvious, reading the stats, why the powers that be decided to ban them. Many issues occurred in people’s homes, with dogs known to them - yes those dogs might have been unwell or whatever, and that can happen to any dog, but the difference is, companion breeding or not, these were big enough and dangerous enough to kill. That, sadly, is a documented fact. Those poor people.

But isnt that jsut reactionary legislating. U ban a breed, people get killed by another breed you ban that breed, you dont save lives you just change the breed that killed them.

 

[AmyMay]

But isnt that jsut reactionary legislating. U ban a breed, people get killed by another breed you ban that breed, you dont save lives you just change the breed that killed them.

What breeds were killing people after the first piece of legislation came in?

 

[Arzada]

I was going to ask this, but didn’t as I’ve not read the whole thread.
A friend just posted that all XL bullies have to be pts tomorrow.
I was sure not but
So basically if I had one (the worlds glad I don’t! Just imagine…!)
Id be allowed to keep it but muzzle outside of my house?

Just send this to your friend https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-for-the-ban-on-xl-bully-dogs

 

[CorvusCorax]

Fear surely? Fear in a don’t get it way.

It's a change in behaviour that they don't understand.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Theres no reaosn xls cant be taken to scotland and rehomed at any point in scotland while they r still legal there. It’s not illegal to export them and ony illegal to rehome them in england and wales.

The point is that XL bullies will still be ‘legal’ in England . No one is being forced to destroy their XL bully here unless there is an order on that specific dog.

All the owners of the vast majority of XL bullies have to do to keep their dog is to comply with the new guidelines, which have been well publicised.