XL Bullies not banned in Scotland

[JBM]

That's not how halal slaughter is either, and we also kill according to halal here in Ireland - I have been in an abattoir on halal days. But JBM, you haven't addressed the salient point here: how is putting animals down because there is no one to look after them/unwanted different from, well, putting animals down, but to eat them?

I find it different because animals for food like cows aren’t bred to be pets or companions
Example of cows
They live their whole life with their herd and then are killed after 2 years or longer depending
They are moved with their herd and stay with their herd until they’re killed. (Humanely under EU law)
Dogs are taken in by a human and enjoy being with people we domesticated them to enjoy living with us so I don’t agree with putting them down and giving up on them. If they’re not going to be pets we shouldn’t breed them.
I have a problem with this breed being killed just to make more room for different breeds to be in the same position. If they want to change what’s Happening change it. I feel like this is just sweeping a problem under the rug to pretend it is fixed

 

[Gloi]

It depends on the degree of all of those
Many horses are sold with all of these

Without the seller admitting the condition, passing the problem on to an unsuspecting buyer rather than taking responsibility.

 

[JBM]

Without the seller admitting the condition, passing the problem on to an unsuspecting buyer rather than taking responsibility.

Not everyone but obviously those people shouldn’t own horses in the first place which is why I think there should be licenses to own animals

 

[AmyMay]

Bark?

You said of the breed

He’s a Samoyed
I don’t see many of them around where I am tbh!
They were bred to keep their ppl warm at night by laying on them so absolutely love a cuddle[/qoute]

 

[Cortez]

I find it different because animals for food like cows aren’t bred to be pets or companions
Example of cows
They live their whole life with their herd and then are killed after 2 years or longer depending
They are moved with their herd and stay with their herd until they’re killed. (Humanely under EU law)
Dogs are taken in by a human and enjoy being with people we domesticated them to enjoy living with us so I don’t agree with putting them down and giving up on them. If they’re not going to be pets we shouldn’t breed them.
I have a problem with this breed being killed just to make more room for different breeds to be in the same position. If they want to change what’s Happening change it. I feel like this is just sweeping a problem under the rug to pretend it is fixed

What an animal is bred for makes no difference whatsoever to the animal. Your concept of how cows are kept is a little, er, uninformed, shall we say? As is your view of how many dogs are kept, but that's by the by. How do you get that pitbull-types are going to be killed to make more room? Your logic is very confusing, to say the least.........

I've done a bit in rescue, both dogs and horses, and I really, really think that we should adopt the system used in some scandinavian countries (and I think in Holland as well?), that no-one can buy or breed until the shelters are empty. Never going to happen; too many vested interests. Oh, and I also think that puppy farms should be burned to the ground (empty, obvs), and their proprietors subjected to some sort of punishment that I'll think of later......

Oh, and it's not just pitbull types that I think should be banned/restricted. I would also like to see the end of brachy breeds; there is no excuse for subjecting any animal to cruel deformities for our amusement.

 

[skinnydipper]

I find it different because animals for food like cows aren’t bred to be pets or companions
Example of cows
They live their whole life with their herd and then are killed after 2 years or longer depending
They are moved with their herd and stay with their herd until they’re killed. (Humanely under EU law)
Dogs are taken in by a human and enjoy being with people we domesticated them to enjoy living with us so I don’t agree with putting them down and giving up on them. If they’re not going to be pets we shouldn’t breed them.
I have a problem with this breed being killed just to make more room for different breeds to be in the same position. If they want to change what’s Happening change it. I feel like this is just sweeping a problem under the rug to pretend it is fixed

I am big on rescue but they can't all be rehomed safely.

What do we do with all the dogs that are not suitable to be rehomed and all the dogs waiting for a rescue space?

Dogs currently needing a rescue space are being pts. It breaks my heart. I was going to post today about a heavily pregnant GSD that was in the pound and going to be pts on 28 December, thankfully there have been rescue offers for her. Should she, and therefore her puppies, have lost their lives because rescue places are taken up by dogs who should never be rehomed?

 

[JBM]

You said of the breed

Well yes but my Doberman also likes to cuddle? Most dogs like a good cuddle
It’s not bred specific. I just thought it was a cute fact but I have known more independent sammys

 

[AmyMay]

I am big on rescue but they can't all be rehomed safely.

What do we do with all the dogs that are not suitable to be rehomed and all the dogs waiting for a rescue space?

Dogs currently needing a rescue space are being pts. It breaks my heart. I was going to post today about a heavily pregnant GSD that was in the pound and going to be pts on 28 December, thankfully there have been several rescue offers for her. Should she, and therefore her puppies, have lost their lives because rescue places are taken up by dogs who should never be rehomed?

 

[AmyMay]

Well yes but my Doberman also likes to cuddle? Most dogs like a good cuddle
It’s not bred specific. I just thought it was a cute fact but I have known more independent sammys

Ah ok. So the statement I quoted was inaccurate?

 

[JBM]

The example of the pregnant gsd is exactly my point
They are going to kill this breed “to make room” but all the spaces will be filled pretty rapidly because this law isn’t solving the problem at all.
If the dog it’s self, not the breed, is a danger to people based of what it has done or the way it acts I agree with pts for safety. But not it’s a bad breed so kill it.
that means all dangerous DOGS are pts for safety reasons yes but not all xl bully’s because they are that breed.

 

[JBM]

Ah ok. So the statement I quoted was inaccurate?

Does your dog like to cuddle

 

[inandout]

Xls don't feature in most competitive sports at any level cause they r not bred as particularly high drive dogs. They also are not physically suited to much of it. They aren't going to beat a collie round agility courses.
Pits r generally higher drive and more athletic.
Xls do feature in weigh pull ect.
This is no different than showline labs not winning field trials ect.
How do u define pet home? u have gsds and compete work train them. U live in the suburbs. Lgds and gsds are both large with defence drive and lack of tolerance to perceived threat. Shud lgds and gsds not be kept in suburbs or shud they only be kept in any environment by the right person. Genuine question. I know lgds and gsds have very different pack and prey drive and handler sensitivity

 

[I'm Dun]

The example of the pregnant gsd is exactly my point
They are going to kill this breed “to make room” but all the spaces will be filled pretty rapidly because this law isn’t solving the problem at all.
If the dog it’s self, not the breed, is a danger to people based of what it has done or the way it acts I agree with pts for safety. But not it’s a bad breed so kill it.
that means all dangerous DOGS are pts for safety reasons yes but not all xl bully’s because they are that breed.

Nothing is being killed to make room. They just arent allowed to make anymore XL bullies, to stop people being killed

 

[Cortez]

The example of the pregnant gsd is exactly my point
They are going to kill this breed “to make room” but all the spaces will be filled pretty rapidly because this law isn’t solving the problem at all.
If the dog it’s self, not the breed, is a danger to people based of what it has done or the way it acts I agree with pts for safety. But not it’s a bad breed so kill it.
that means all dangerous DOGS are pts for safety reasons yes but not all xl bully’s because they are that breed.

WHERE are you getting the idea that all XLbullies are going to be put down? The only dogs that will be PTS are those that their owners will not take responsibility for. That's on the owners. Do the dogs deserve better owners? Absolutely. It's BECAUSE of the owners: all of it.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Well I shop in dunnes in ireland and I use the meat produced by Irish farmers

The same Irish farmers that produced the €230 million worth of live exports in 2022?

 

[AmyMay]

Does your dog like to cuddle

That’s entirely besides the point. On one hand you dismiss breed traits, whilst having previously highlighted one of your own breed traits. That sort of goes against the entirety of your argument in relation to xl’s.

 

[Jenko109]

Well yes but my Doberman also likes to cuddle? Most dogs like a good cuddle
It’s not bred specific. I just thought it was a cute fact but I have known more independent sammys

I don't think this is true at all.

I don't think most dogs like to be cuddled.

To be close to us. To have a belly rub. Sure.

Cuddled. Not so much. Too many people just don't recognise the signs that their dog isn't enjoying it as they are such fabulous creatures who will put up with a lot.

 

[Clodagh]

Example of cows
They live their whole life with their herd and then are killed after 2 years or longer depending
They are moved with their herd and stay with their herd until they’re killed. (Humanely under EU law)

I suspect you have limited knowledge of beef farming. That’s fine, I have limited knowledge on a billion things but I don’t tend to spout garbage as facts. Hopefully!

 

[JBM]

I don't think this is true at all.

I don't think most dogs like to be cuddled.

To be close to us. To have a belly rub. Sure.

Cuddled. Not so much. Too many people just don't recognise the signs that their dog isn't enjoying it as they are such fabulous creatures who will put up with a lot.

I do class petting and belly rubs and all as cuddling so I do apologise if that came off wrong
None of my dogs are allowed on the bed and I don’t hug them so to speak

 

[JBM]

I suspect you have limited knowledge of beef farming. That’s fine, I have limited knowledge on a billion things but I don’t tend to spout garbage as facts. Hopefully!

I am a dairy farmer yes but I am surrounded by beef farmers and they are kept until 2 as they get the best price for 2yos

 

[JBM]

The same Irish farmers that produced the €230 million worth of live exports in 2022?

You keep switching the agrument
We are first talking about the meat I’m eating then how the uk kill their cattle and now the exports of ireland

I eat Irish meat that has been killed by EU law in ireland that is not the same sentence as animals aren’t exported from ireland

 

[splashgirl45]

Well personally I believe all people should have to do a course or some training certificate before they should be able to own a dog. Or any animal.

Exactly what I think, years ago only people who really,really wanted a dog got one and although some were latch key dogs I don’t remember any dangerous dogs attacking people when they were on the streets. It’s much too easy to get any animal including horses and not care for them properly. Some sort of rules need to be set up for breeders as well, since lockdown every dog that could be bred seems to have been , that needs to stop

 

[AmyMay]

I am a dairy farmer yes but I am surrounded by beef farmers and they are kept until 2 as they get the best price for 2yos

And many would argue that dairy farming is the cruelest of practices.

I sympathise (and respect) your position on xl’s. But knowing that you’re activity involved in Dairy farming I can’t quite square the two positions.

Caveat- I am neither a vegan nor a vegetarian.

 

[JBM]

And many would argue that dairy farming is the cruelest of practices.

I sympathise (and respect) your position on xl’s. But knowing that you’re activity involved in Dairy farming I can’t quite square the two positions.

Caveat- I am neither a vegan nor a vegetarian.

We aren’t cruel to our cows you may ask me any question you like in relation to it and I will answer honestly

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I think I've posted this point before and can't remember the comments to it, but wonder if there will be a single new breed to replace XLs. I remember when Malinois were my most feared breed, I rarely see one and when I have they are with owners very clearly training and working them so I have never felt threatened by one. Something about XLs specifically gaining popularity in a short space of time in a way potentially other problemic or historically demonised breed don't seem to have, and haven't caused so many fatalities. There's obviously some very questionable crosses but they seem so ridiculous I wonder if they would take off in the same way. Although I do question how many XLs actually sell for the thousands quoted. I'm sure there's dodgy tax and/or laundering stuff going on because seriously who has that kind of money for a dog?! My greyhound was an absolute bargain at £175

 

[Quigleyandme]

I am a dairy farmer yes but I am surrounded by beef farmers and they are kept until 2 as they get the best price for 2yos

Do you send your dairy bull calves to the factory?

 

[Clodagh]

I am a dairy farmer yes but I am surrounded by beef farmers and they are kept until 2 as they get the best price for 2yos

Ok, I think it’s lovely that Irish farmers run all theirs on in settled herds until slaughter.

 

[AmyMay]

We aren’t cruel to our cows you may ask me any question you like in relation to it and I will answer honestly

That’s not the point I was making.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s an imperfect solution to an imperfect situation
These XL bullies are causing a disproportionate amount of problems for their numbers .
The solution is a fudge it gives owners of dogs a way to keep their dogs subject to controls that attempts to protect the innocent .
Will it solve the issue completely no .
It will be interesting to see how many of these dogs actually end up in Scotland and how much it’s just exaggerated.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

The example of the pregnant gsd is exactly my point
They are going to kill this breed “to make room” but all the spaces will be filled pretty rapidly because this law isn’t solving the problem at all.
If the dog it’s self, not the breed, is a danger to people based of what it has done or the way it acts I agree with pts for safety. But not it’s a bad breed so kill it.
that means all dangerous DOGS are pts for safety reasons yes but not all xl bully’s because they are that breed.

No, it means that dogs that can be re-homed are more likely to get a place rather than have a plethora of xls that take up room but can’t ever be re-homed.

I don't think this is true at all.

I don't think most dogs like to be cuddled.

To be close to us. To have a belly rub. Sure.

Cuddled. Not so much. Too many people just don't recognise the signs that their dog isn't enjoying it as they are such fabulous creatures who will put up with a lot.

But you can’t use such broad brushstrokes. Bear fusses until he’s being ‘clutched’ ie held securely after demanding to be on your knee much like despite being littermates, dogs might be very different in many ways, I’ve seen it over the last 20 years with pairs of brothers, treated the same, but very different personalities, a bit like kids, I suppose.