Yet another delightful rider..... not..... when will this end?

[SaddlePsych'D]

It IS hard I think, because the industry has a culture of don't question, shut up an put up etc. So even something seemingly simple becomes a huge item.

I was shouted at/screamed frankly into silence in a lesson once, and those who know me KNOW I have an opinion I barely said anything at the time, but I did put a complaint in writing a few weeks later (after a couple of other things happened).

I don't think I have had proper screaming at me. I've witnessed it and didn't do anything. To my shame. I think the person being shouted at has moved on now (because of the shouting, I believe). I would hope they did report it. I'm still in two minds about whether it is too late. If the other person did report, I am a witness to that.

I have definitely had multiple times where I thought afterwards, sometimes years later 'why on earth did I let that person (instructor) speak to me like that?!' So my stock phrase should this come up again, though current instructor seems that good balance of honest/straightforward but also kind and encouraging, will be: 'excuse me, why are you speaking to me like that?'

I will wait to see what response I get about today. It's weird, I am left with a lot of anxiety about it. Being 'nobody' in the horse world perhaps makes it easier to speak up as the stakes are lower, but also means I have little power to do much if those are 'someone' chose not to act. It then sits very uncomfortably.

 

[rabatsa]

I am the person who freezes. Who says inappropriate things. Laughs at funerals/sad news. Non of this is under voluntary control.

This thread makes me feel very uncomfortable.

 

[little_critter]

I’ve been brought up in an atmosphere of “don’t make a fuss dear” (not in the horse world, just generally, my parents were very much of the ‘keep the peace’ type) so I find it incredibly hard to pipe up.
I’ve had a couple of lessons that I should have ended early. They weren’t abusive but they were so far adrift from our usual training style that a) I just ended up with a confused horse and b) I would never choose to ride that way so there was no point to the lesson.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I have mentioned this elsewhere on the forum but I went to watch the BE Eventing at the South of England autumn show yesterday and it left me with a really nice feeling that out of easily 100+ competitors, and having spent a few hours watching all three phases and several warmups, I didn't see one bit of unsavoury riding/handling or tack. I wish that was the rule not the exception but take it where it comes.

 

[nikicb]

And it goes on and on..... I guess it's good that the FEI has acted, but so utterly disappointed that one of our under 25 riders has received a yellow card for misuse of a whip warming up in the European U25 dressage championships. I have heard of the rider, but no more than that. But seriously, I can't get my head around misuse of a whip on a horse before riding a dressage test. I don't agree at all, but can sort of understand a jockey in a race coming up to the finish line using a whip to get that extra oomph, or a show jumper/eventer aiming at a large/spooky fence and they feel the horse backing off, but in a dressage warm up..... I mean just why???

FEI Issues Two Yellow Warning Cards to Dressage Riders for Abuse of Horse

FEI Issues Two Yellow Warning Cards to Dressage Riders for Abuse of Horse

eurodressage.com

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’ve just seen that, too .

Jeez, misuse of the whip in a dressage warm up by a Brit rider. What the heck goes on at home if he felt it ok to whack the horse right under the noses of the stewards at an FEI competition?

I’d never heard of him before, either. Let him sink without trace from the horse world and go take up some other sport that doesn’t involve abusing a sentient being.

He can go smash a squash racquet or something instead.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

what a depressing paragraph

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Why issue cards?? Just ban them for a year or more, they might think twice then.

 

[teapot]

Quite a few (5 or 6!) warnings and a yellow card at one event - Cornbury - on the eventing list too, including a known GB rider.

 

[ester]

what a depressing paragraph

View attachment 147360

Like they're trying to make that sound like a good thing rather than them just being more useless at pulling up anyone on anything.

 

[nikicb]

Although Eurodressage quoted a statement from BD, there doesn't seem to be any statement on BD's website, or their social media sites.

British Dressage issued the following statement:

"Angus Corrie-Deane was issued with a Yellow Card at the FEI European Championships for Under 25 riders hosted at St. Margarethen in July. The card was issued by the stewards for a breach of the FEI equine welfare policies, under General Regulations Articles 142 and 164.3, due to misuse of the whip. This resulted in Angus’s elimination from the individual medal competition. British Dressage reciprocated this action by the FEI, issuing a formal written warning to the rider about his future conduct."

 

[clinkerbuilt]

Quite a few (5 or 6!) warnings and a yellow card at one event - Cornbury - on the eventing list too, including a known GB rider.

I don't see the Cornbury ones - am I looking in the wrong place?

 

[teapot]

I don't see the Cornbury ones - am I looking in the wrong place?

They're down as Charlbury https://data.fei.org/Tools/BaseData.aspx?table=WarningCards////eventing/

 

[TPO]

Quite a few (5 or 6!) warnings and a yellow card at one event - Cornbury - on the eventing list too, including a known GB rider.

Do you mean Bubby Upton?

 

[clinkerbuilt]

They're down as Charlbury https://data.fei.org/Tools/BaseData.aspx?table=WarningCards////eventing/

Ah okay now I see jumping the rope did get a warning... (albeit not a fault penalty).

 

[ihatework]

Do you mean Bubby Upton?

She had a real brat attack.

 

[TPO]

She had a real brat attack.

Hasn't she had a few of those?

 

[Nicnac]

Maybe it would be better to remove their right to compete both nationally and internationally for 3 months for first infringement, then 6 months and so on. As that would really harm their reputation and business and make them think.

If I were an owner I would immediately remove my horse from anyone who was sanctioned for abuse of the horse. Hopefully some owners have done so, especially when one of the culprits is a serial offender.

 

[nikicb]

Maybe it would be better to remove their right to compete both nationally and internationally for 3 months for first infringement, then 6 months and so on. As that would really harm their reputation and business and make them think.

If I were an owner I would immediately remove my horse from anyone who was sanctioned for abuse of the horse. Hopefully some owners have done so, especially when one of the culprits is a serial offender.

Agreed. Instead he was competing at the Nationals recently, and placed. Obviously mention of that on SM, but not the yellow card.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

I’ve never understood the admiration for Bubby Upton - I think she was doing a course walk at Blenheim for the BHS and you’d think they’d take more notice of FEI sanctions.. Obviously she had a horrendous accident and has determinedly worked her way back but there’s been quite a few incidents where she’s shown a lack of judgment - I remember one post where she was dragging her dog along the ground and finding it funny .. and the constant H&H stories about her ‘dedication’ when she was flying to and from university every week - what that really showed was her parents’ bank balance …

 

[Tiddlypom]

Ah okay now I see jumping the rope did get a warning... (albeit not a fault penalty).

Ah yes, I see that jumping the ropes is an infringement in its own right rather than getting lumped in with something else.

Dangerous riding - Jumping the rope (Eventing Rules Art. 525.1)

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

She had a real brat attack.

Again?
Monster kid. (I call her a kid as she doesn't appear to have found adult reactions yet)

 

[daffy44]

Maybe it would be better to remove their right to compete both nationally and internationally for 3 months for first infringement, then 6 months and so on. As that would really harm their reputation and business and make them think.

If I were an owner I would immediately remove my horse from anyone who was sanctioned for abuse of the horse. Hopefully some owners have done so, especially when one of the culprits is a serial offender.

I agree, I think the yellow card is not enough when its for abuse of the horse. I understand the principle of the yellow card, but I think its too easy to ignore, very few people know where to look for them, they are not generally made public and its too easy for riders to pretend they didnt happen, I would like to see real consequences for yellow carded horse abuse on an ascending scale for repeat offenders.

 

[ester]

Be interesting to know the numbers of how many go on to have a 2 month suspension if they get another yellow card.

 

[little_critter]

I agree, I think the yellow card is not enough when its for abuse of the horse. I understand the principle of the yellow card, but I think its too easy to ignore, very few people know where to look for them, they are not generally made public and its too easy for riders to pretend they didnt happen, I would like to see real consequences for yellow carded horse abuse on an ascending scale for repeat offenders.

Yes!
If someone keeps getting yellow cards for abuse of the horse then there should come a point when it’s decided that we don’t want that person associating with horses.

 

[Goldenstar]

I do think the yellow card thing needs a rethink .
You can get a yellow card for many things that have nothing to do with the horse and I think it would be helpful have a clear separation between things like that and abuse of horse type situations .

 

[ester]

are the yellow cards and eventing warning cards completely separate or do they ever add up together for a suspension?

 

[Goldenstar]

are the yellow cards and eventing warning cards completely separate or do they ever add up together for a suspension?

My knowledge is bit out of date but I think it’s two yellow cards in a year then it’s an automatic suspension which is for two months .

 

[ester]

eventing has separate warning cards too, 3 of those in a year also generate a 2 month suspension. I wondered if you could say have a yellow, and 2 warning cards and still not be suspended.

 

[daffy44]

I do think the yellow card thing needs a rethink .
You can get a yellow card for many things that have nothing to do with the horse and I think it would be helpful have a clear separation between things like that and abuse of horse type situ

Yes, I completely agree, messing up paperwork type of infringement, and abuse of the horse should be treated very differently.