Another fatal dog attack

[ycbm]

I can understand that there are people who are letting their dogs annoy or scare others and you are more than entitled to be unhappy about it but just because they are selfish idiots is not good enough reason to restrict to that extent those who aren't. I have to admit that I really don't like being tarred with the same brush.

You have no option but to be tarred with the same brush because nobody but you and anyone who knows you and your dogs intimately can know that they are not a threat.

You seem to keep forgetting here that we are not asking to restrict you or your dogs ability to go for a walk. But we are suggesting that them running free and not to heel is restricting other people's ability to go for a walk.

I don't understand why you think the right of your dogs to be, say, twenty feet away from you trumps a dog phobic, disabled or partially sighted person's right to walk without fear.

On lead, of course, you do have to walk much further to get the dog the same level of exercise, maybe that's part of it.

Everyone understands that it isn't the responsible dog owners who are the problem here, it's the others. But the others are so numerous. Your solution to that was to tell me to organise dog free walking spaces. Of course that is impossible for the surfaced public paths which are where I walk.

Training the idiots isn't going to happen. What other solution is there than leads?
.

 

[ycbm]

When I went to walk with Spottherisk, so south moor and far, far busier than around me, every single dog we met was absolutely fine. Two on leads but the rest just like ours, dog and human neutral. That was several walks in several places. I was stunned how many dogs were out there, it was like a dog motorway in places, but absolutely no trouble at all.

From what I see the idiots are on well managed paths or in parks that are close to big urban developments. The further you get from town the less issue there is. By far the worst is Rudyard lake, a path which starts in the old terraced housing around the town of Leek. That path is around 15 feet wide all the way for 2.5 flat miles and it's common for me to have to stop while someone's dog on an extended lead on the opposite side of the path to the owner is belatedly reeled back in. That won't stop with a lead requirement, of course, but at least most of the ones who run under my feet would.

Having said that, it is getting a lot better lately. I wonder if the lockdown dogs are being given away?

 

[skinnydipper]

If the incident you provided a link to happened a few days before it is clearly not the same incident that the Police were responding to.

Woman mortified after dogs who attacked her pet are shot dead by cops

The animal lover is said to be 'traumatised' after armed officers gunned down the canines - named Millions and Marshall - by a canal in east London on Sunday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If anyone wants to know what a delightful man the owner is, he has a history of violent offending, convictions for assault and robbery and assault causing severe injury.

 

[Jenko109]

I imagine the attacked dogs owner did call the Police, however she is probably receiving abuse for it now which is why she is saying she didnt call them.

Victim blaming gross world we live in.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

If only the laws we have were enforced rigorously so that people knew they would be I think things could improve. For instance it is the law that dogs must wear collars with contact details on a tag. How many of the out of control bully types actually have collars on? Virtually none. There was someone locally who had a an Old English Sheepdog, never had a collar on and I don't think he even carried a lead. He walked it like that in parks, on pavements, anywhere he liked. Dog was good natured but people with little dogs found its size intimidating and he would never call it away. He used to get verbally aggressive at those sort of people deeming them not to have control of their dogs. He was reported so many times for intimidating behaviour and got banned from several areas. The dog should have been impounded but never was. Sadly for the dog last I heard he had cancer and was dying.
If the law actually used its teeth people like him would soon learn to behave or risk losing their dogs and if their dogs are deemed dangerous they should be put down. Shame the dogs have to suffer but unfortunately we aren't allowed to treat the owners as harshly.

 

[AmyMay]

If anyone wants to know what a delightful man the owner is, he has a history of violent offending, convictions for assault and robbery and assault causing severe injury.

But did his dogs?

 

[skinnydipper]

But did his dogs?

Woman mortified after dogs who attacked her pet are shot dead by cops

The animal lover is said to be 'traumatised' after armed officers gunned down the canines - named Millions and Marshall - by a canal in east London on Sunday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[paddy555]

When I went to walk with Spottherisk, so south moor and far, far busier than around me, every single dog we met was absolutely fine. Two on leads but the rest just like ours, dog and human neutral. That was several walks in several places. I was stunned how many dogs were out there, it was like a dog motorway in places, but absolutely no trouble at all.

I ride that area and I am stunned how many there are and how their numbers have increased out of all proportion over the years. Say 20 years ago there were far less and far more under control.
I think they are required to be on a fixed lead of no more than 2metres 1/3 - 31/7. The problem is you don't really know which one is going to be the problem dog and owner. I can often read the dogs but not the owners.

If we look at these more open places such as moorland and beaches we could look at Exmouth beach and the horse chased by the dog. For those not familiar Exmouth is a very large, long flat beach as far as horse/dog chasing goes. You would not stop a terrified horse very easily.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Out of curiosity - and feel free to ignore me - but do you live in an area with more crime now as well?

Just thinking that, in London at least, most of the dangerous dog incidents have occurred in areas with comparatively high knife/gang crime. Whereas I live in a part of London that's relatively safe, and none of the 'problematic' breeds (a couple XL bullies, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, mastiff types) here have ever caused an issue. The main breeds I see trying to go for other dogs or people are terriers.

I don't know the stats, but very likely yes. There's lots of other differences too (more densely populated, city vs. small town, more diverse population, significantly less open space). Where we lived before people just didn't have those types of dog. That said, I wouldn't assume that the types of dog I mentioned are exclusively linked to crime or gangs. I've seen a couple out with people I think may be crime/gang associated but think most of the owners are just crap/ignorant/entitled even if they do have good intentions. Much like for other breeds it's just with the added flavour of no respect/acknowledgment of what a dog of that size would be capable of if it all goes wrong. It kind of doesn't matter to me, the end result could be the same, a dog pulling towards and fixing on us is threatening regardless of who is on the other end of the lead.

 

[paddy555]

I also report repeat offenders to the dog warden. It is not my or any other reasonable persons fault that enforcement is so ineffective. In my opinion, that's what we should all be shouting for - that the existing laws and byelaws are actually enforced.
(sorry can't get post 388 to quote)

How could you do this? It may work in a town but I look at the times my horses have been attacked by dogs and it would be impossible. It is too far away and far too large an area, the dog owner doesn't stay and deal with it, if you could even get a mobile signal ringing the police would be a joke. Report it to the dog warden, they are unlikely to give their name.

There is a bylaw on Dartmoor that dogs have to be on short leads Mar-July. That is clearly ignored. We are talking about thousands of acres, much inaccessible by vehicle.

are you going to have dog wardens constantly patrolling beaches,

I too have had the undertaking cyclists but to some extent you know where the cyclists are (usually on a road or track) it doesn't excuse their behaviour in any way and I simply avoid those areas. Undertaking cyclists are very scary. You try and explain what would happen if their pedal hit the horse's hind leg but to no avail.
I am in a tourist area and very very conscious of keeping the public safe. Not because I like the public in any way but because I know it will most likely end up as my horse's or my fault.

 

[splashgirl45]

I like to have my dogs off lead so I walk round the fields where I know most of the people and their dogs, if I see someone walking without a dog and I know I will have to pass them, I put mine on lead(short) as some people are scared or don’t like dogs, if I see a dog I don’t know mine go on lead until I’ve established whether the other dog is dog friendly. I feel I am a thoughtful dog owner and am a bit fed up with all the negative social media stuff about dogs. I am soon going on holiday to Norfolk to a very quiet place with miles of dog friendly beaches and each time I have been there I’ve never come across any aggressive dogs, hope this year proves to be the same

 

[CorvusCorax]

Having always had a breed of dog which no one wants to see running around off the leash, I've always kept mine leashed in public, it's just courtesy, it is not exactly a hardship and the onus is on me as the owner to find areas where the dog can be safely allowed to run free/seek out activities where the dog can exercise its body and brain properly. The onus is not on people who do not want to/are afraid of being bothered by offleash dogs to modify their behaviour.
I say that today, being incredibly frustrated by the fact that it is becoming impossible to leave my home and walk my young dog along the greenway on which we live without a daily incident caused by offleash dogs. I am lucky that I can drive a short distance away to give her a good run. These people have a lovely, relaxing walk, playing on their phones and taking in the scenery and don't give anyone else a second thought, while my dog is stressed to the max and always wondering where the next 'attack' is coming from and feels like she has to be defensive in her own front garden.

 

[marmalade76]

All this antisocial behaviour from dogs and dog owners has totally put me off dogs even though I own one! From random attacks on people, other dogs, animals, horses, dogs killing their owners or relatives of the owners to dogs treated like babies or fashion accessories. There's dog sh!t all over the town I live in, it's worse how than when I was a kid when nobody cleaned up after their dog!

Anyone read the comments by one particular dog owner after a trade stand at Badminton had to cheek to ban dogs due to their stock getting covered in mud? Unbelievable. I shan't have another dog after this one's gone, I just don't really like them anymore.

 

[jsprince]

Having always had a breed of dog which no one wants to see running around off the leash, I've always kept mine leashed in public, it's just courtesy, it is not exactly a hardship and the onus is on me as the owner to find areas where the dog can be safely allowed to run free/seek out activities where the dog can exercise its body and brain properly. The onus is not on people who do not want to/are afraid of being bothered by offleash dogs to modify their behaviour.
I say that today, being incredibly frustrated by the fact that it is becoming impossible to leave my home and walk my young dog along the greenway on which we live without a daily incident caused by offleash dogs. I am lucky that I can drive a short distance away to give her a good run. These people have a lovely, relaxing walk, playing on their phones and taking in the scenery and don't give anyone else a second thought, while my dog is stressed to the max and always wondering where the next 'attack' is coming from and feels like she has to be defensive in her own front garden.

I can quite understand your frustration, it was because of my dog that I originally purchased a field 20 years ago so they could be free and have a good run, whilst investigating the little wooded area and ditches, six acres of dog heaven.

horses only came into their lives afterwards and I do not think the GSD’s have forgiven me yet, even though they now have 12 acres to run round.
How many people can afford to do that though?

 

[Clodagh]

I think they are required to be on a fixed lead of no more than 2metres 1/3 - 31/7.

They are, yes, but only on the moor itself.

 

[splashgirl45]

All this antisocial behaviour from dogs and dog owners has totally put me off dogs even though I own one! From random attacks on people, other dogs, animals, horses, dogs killing their owners or relatives of the owners to dogs treated like babies or fashion accessories. There's dog sh!t all over the town I live in, it's worse how than when I was a kid when nobody cleaned up after their dog!

Anyone read the comments by one particular dog owner after a trade stand at Badminton had to cheek to ban dogs due to their stock getting covered in mud? Unbelievable. I shan't have another dog after this one's gone, I just don't really like them anymore.

That’s a shame when it’s not the dogs fault that they are owned by numpties and you could give a home to a rescue

 

[planete]

I always thought I would foster or adopt an old dog when my current lot are no more. I rather fancied giving some oldie no longer keen on long walks a cosy end of life. I have now changed my mind. I do not want the dogs or myself to be at the mercy of out of control dogs or humans as I get even older. OH provides the long walks at the moment and is still strong enough to hold our lot no matter what but even he will eventually need to be careful.

 

[limestonelil]

Just a comment. Dogs are required by law to keep to a footpath where it goes over private land, just as people are. I only found this out for definite last month. I live in a National Park where lots of people, both residents and tourists, ignore this requirement. The National Park does not appear to help landowners regarding the situation.
Just for information.

 

[bonny]

Just a comment. Dogs are required by law to keep to a footpath where it goes over private land, just as people are. I only found this out for definite last month. I live in a National Park where lots of people, both residents and tourists, ignore this requirement. The National Park does not appear to help landowners regarding the situation.
Just for information.

What would you like them to do ?

 

[ycbm]

Just a comment. Dogs are required by law to keep to a footpath where it goes over private land, just as people are. I only found this out for definite last month. I live in a National Park where lots of people, both residents and tourists, ignore this requirement. The National Park does not appear to help landowners regarding the situation.
Just for information.

The Peak Park Rangers put up loads of signs saying dogs must be on leads, all around Macclesfield Forest. The dog walkers removed them all.

 

[CorvusCorax]

What would you like them to do ?

Keep their dogs on a lead

 

[bonny]

Keep their dogs on a lead

That wasn t my question If you read the poster I was asking

 

[Spotherisk]

When I went to walk with Spottherisk, so south moor and far, far busier than around me, every single dog we met was absolutely fine. Two on leads but the rest just like ours, dog and human neutral. That was several walks in several places. I was stunned how many dogs were out there, it was like a dog motorway in places, but absolutely no trouble at all.

The walk you’re talking of was at Parke, which is National Trust and has now implemented an all dogs on leads due to nesting birds. I haven’t been there again since you and I were there in March - too busy!

 

[twiggy2]

17K views · 23K reactions | Good thing they Banned E-collars in the UK 🥴 Follow @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears | Team Floppy Ears | Team Floppy Ears · Original audio

Good thing they Banned E-collars in the UK 🥴 Follow @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears. Team Floppy Ears · Original audio

www.facebook.com

Anyone seen this, not sure how old it is but shocking footage.
'Please stop' she says at the start and then when she eventually gets hold of a 'puppy' no apology or anything.
No offer of help or details.
Dogs completely out of control, obviously known to chase bikes in an area bikers are, good job he stayed on his feet I think and he stayed so calm.

 

[MurphysMinder]

17K views · 23K reactions | Good thing they Banned E-collars in the UK 🥴 Follow @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears | Team Floppy Ears | Team Floppy Ears · Original audio

Good thing they Banned E-collars in the UK 🥴 Follow @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears. Team Floppy Ears · Original audio

www.facebook.com

Anyone seen this, not sure how old it is but shocking footage.
'Please stop' she says at the start and then when she eventually gets hold of a 'puppy' no apology or anything.
No offer of help or details.
Dogs completely out of control, obviously known to chase bikes in an area bikers are, good job he stayed on his feet I think and he stayed so calm.

I've seen that before, I think it may have been posted on here. She had no control and was obviously aware they would chase, ridiculous.

 

[twiggy2]

I've seen that before, I think it may have been posted on here. She had no control and was obviously aware they would chase, ridiculous.

I missed it if it was here, I hope the guy reported them and something was done about it

 

[marmalade76]

17K views · 23K reactions | Good thing they Banned E-collars in the UK 🥴 Follow @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears | Team Floppy Ears | Team Floppy Ears · Original audio

Good thing they Banned E-collars in the UK 🥴 Follow @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears @teamfloppyears. Team Floppy Ears · Original audio

www.facebook.com

Anyone seen this, not sure how old it is but shocking footage.
'Please stop' she says at the start and then when she eventually gets hold of a 'puppy' no apology or anything.
No offer of help or details.
Dogs completely out of control, obviously known to chase bikes in an area bikers are, good job he stayed on his feet I think and he stayed so calm.

Absolutely shocking, no collars, no control and I strongly disagree with this being used as an argument against the banning of e-collars. What if that had been a child? Someone elderly? Someone on a horse? These dogs should never have been off lead, the owners obviously knew this was going to happen, these dogs obviously have form yet they let them off the lead with no collars! If they want to run them off lead, they should have hired a secure dog park, there's plenty about so there's absolutely NO excuse.

 

[DirectorFury]

I've seen that before, I think it may have been posted on here. She had no control and was obviously aware they would chase, ridiculous.

It was posted here, among other places. In the original version it was pretty easy to track down the people walking the dogs by the writing on the back of their jackets.

They were fostering these dogs for a Mali-specific rescue, both dogs were known (based on posts on both the rescue public FB page and the fosterers public FB) to have a bite history and also to have an extreme dislike* of the sound of wheels on a wet floor (e.g. cars driving on a wet road). There were also lots of posts detailing the issues that they were having trying to train recall. One of them was adopted up to Scotland only a few days after this attack, I’ve no idea what happened to the other as the recuse and the fosterer locked down their FB pages when they realised they’d been identified.

The guy who was attacked originally posted the video on Reddit and said he didn’t report to the police because the people responsible for the dogs begged him not to and “were sorting everything out”. I’m guessing (this is pure speculation) they gave him some sob story and offered him money.

*i can’t remember the exact wording now, but it was heavily implied by the fosterer that one or both had previously gone for a cyclist.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

But did his dogs?

Having watched the whole video that shows how the stupid woman over-reacted when from what I could see all one of the dogs did was sniff at hers as she came out of the shop. Her dog screamed and she went hysterical.
The owner of those dogs let them down badly and to be honest I didn't think they deserved to be shot, the second one in particular. A friend sent me a petition to sign and I have. Just sickened by this whole thing.

 

[Red-1]

Having watched the whole video that shows how the stupid woman over-reacted when from what I could see all one of the dogs did was sniff at hers as she came out of the shop. Her dog screamed and she went hysterical.
The owner of those dogs let them down badly and to be honest I didn't think they deserved to be shot, the second one in particular. A friend sent me a petition to sign and I have. Just sickened by this whole thing.

That was a separate video from a few days before. On the day, the bystanders dog was actually bitten and the lady injured in the kerfuffle. It was a different lady and her dog.