Another fatal dog attack

[SilverLinings]

Tha article says she was the owner. Such an awful thing to happen. One of the things that scares me most about this breed are the countless stories of them being absolutely fine, friendly, affectionate family dogs until suddenly they’re not.

There was very little information in the short paragraph published last night, just when, where, that one person was dead and two XLBs involved. I have now gone and read today's updated version and it is sad that the owner was killed and she was one of the ones following the new law.

IMO it proves the ban was a good thing; these two dogs clearly had the propensity to kill a human but the opportunities to do so were reduced by the owner putting muzzles and leads on them in public (the reports say they were registered and that she followed the rules). Sadly it didn't save her life.

I think it is particularly horrifying that there are still XLBs in homes with children, who do not understand the danger and did not make the choice to live with an XLB.

 

[Clodagh]

Two of mine would possibly snap at them, definitely growl. But that is why it would never happen.
And people think dogs are born easy, and mostly are allergic to the thought of putting any inconvenient time or effort in to them.

 

[SilverLinings]

These dogs dont need a reason to attack.

Both of mine would let an unknown child take a bone away. They wouldn't like it, but would come and find me to tell me rather than rip a child scalp off or similar. And that's why I have them, I know my limitations and they are sweet and easy by nature. We need more breeders breeding for temperament, and more people understanding what they are taking on.

I see lots of posts on whippet groups asking about recall and separation anxiety, or their young dog is totally out of control as it never gets let off its lead. I'm sure similar happens on other breed specific groups. But by the time you know you've got a problem, its too late to do the early and relatively straight forward training that stops it happening, and it becomes a huge thing.

And even if a whippet/spaniel/poodle/labrador/terrier went for a child who was touching their food they don't have the aggressive drive, mouth size or bite strength that the XLB does so would be less likely to kill or inflict the same level of injuries

 

[skinnydipper]

One neighbour who lived opposite told MailOnline: 'I never saw the dogs at all but once I had to knock at the house to retrieve a parcel and I heard them barking.

'They sounded like big dogs, I was a little wary, but I didn't see them.'

Pictured: Mother-of-two, 50, mauled to death by her two XL Bully dogs

Angeline Mahal, 50, was attacked yesterday afternoon at her home in Hornchurch, East London , with armed police bearing riot shields called to deal with the animals.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[DabDab]

If a child tried to take a chew off mine the westie would probably snatch up the chew and skidaddle with it (and likely bury it), the jrt x pom would give it up but be upset about it and the mainly jrt would actively give it over to the child in the hopes of more child-love.
But a) they would not be left alone with a child and certainly not with a chew, and b) if they did snap at a child they most assuredly would not be removing the kid's scalp.

 

[cbmcts]

This!!
Its exactly why we are not getting another dog unless it comes from a close and trusted friend.

I do not have time for a puppy.
An Adult dog is too much of a risk unless i know its full history and trust the source of that history.
Even those from charities could have unexpected triggers.
Ellie is too young, too little and too used to dogs who are good with kids to take that risk.

Very wise Conniegirl. I'm a huge supporter of rescue dogs but I still advise those with small children or anyone vulnerable to not have an adult rescue because, as you say, you don't know them and they don't know you but you have have to bring them into your home with all that learning to do. When you bring a baby home with a resident dog, they are settled, trained and you know them, their weaknesses and foibles. Still needs management but doable.

I wish more people realised that them having an easy dog and their children growing up with it does not mean that an adult rescue is a good idea - in some ways, such children's comfort level/complacence around dogs can be very dangerous. IME 8 years old is about the earliest that a child can read a strange dog and for many it's a skill they never acquire at any age!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Or you could not put either the dog (any dog) or child in that position.

 

[misst]

A friend told me years ago when I got my first puppy to train "give" and "leave" early, alongside sit stay and come. I also add OFF now. My dogs will allow any of the family to take anything from them even high value things. But our granddaughter was also "trained" to leave them if they were eating and to call us if she saw them with something they weren't allowed (ie her soft toys).
Moti came as a young rescue who had growled at children. When our granddaughter was born I was hypervigillant for a good couple of years. It took a long time to stop him guarding resources as he'd been a stray. Now I would trust him 100% with myself and my husband and adult children and their partners. Everyone else I would say 95% he is amazing 5% he warns them off with a snarl. Granddaughter - he adores her actively seeking her out and offering toys for play. She's 7 and very dog savvy for a 7yo. Do I trust him? I don't know as we've never pushed that boundary. He weighs 5.5kg but he's a true terrier so could still scar her and do damage.

 

[Jenko109]

My whippet and collie would allow a child to take their bone I imagine.

My lurcher would never be in the same room with a child in general. We dont have children and she is fearful of strangers so is put away if anybody comes round the house.

Of course this is all pretty irrelevant, as I would never set my dogs up to fail in the first place.

 

[skinnydipper]

I see lots of posts on whippet groups asking about recall and separation anxiety, or their young dog is totally out of control as it never gets let off its lead. I'm sure similar happens on other breed specific groups. But by the time you know you've got a problem, its too late to do the early and relatively straight forward training that stops it happening, and it becomes a huge thing.

and then what do people do? They pass on the dog with problems for somebody else to deal with. Then get another dog.

 

[conniegirl]

Both Jezza and Daisy would have allowed a child to take somethjng from them. Even high value items.

They were never put in the position that they had to allow it but the fact that they would have was very very important.
With toddlers in particular they have a penchant for getting into trouble in the half second you take your eyes off them. To know that if that trouble involved the dog that the worst that would happen was a growl.

 

[twiggy2]

Both myself and my partner CAN remove valuable items from our dogs, we can also tell them to drop something from a distance-the drop can be reluctant but it happens and we are not in their faces, one of the best things about feeding each dog in a seperate room (or kennels) is that you never need to remove the item from the dog you can call the dog away from it, no conflict or confrontation- perfect. For dogs that wont leave the item its safer to work on the recall and swopping for higher value items than it is to move into the dogs space to remove something from the dog.

 

[misst]

Twiggy I was told to "swap" things rather than just take things and we also would offer them back after a few moments. It's useful to be able to do this even on walks etc as Ruby is a ball addict/thief and both of ours will scavenge. I don't often need it but it's a useful "tool" to have.

 

[skinnydipper]

Woman attacked by her own XL bullies in Edinburgh flat

The woman was seriously hurt and the dogs were euthanised after the attack in Leith.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[splashgirl45]

There was very little information in the short paragraph published last night, just when, where, that one person was dead and two XLBs involved. I have now gone and read today's updated version and it is sad that the owner was killed and she was one of the ones following the new law.

IMO it proves the ban was a good thing; these two dogs clearly had the propensity to kill a human but the opportunities to do so were reduced by the owner putting muzzles and leads on them in public (the reports say they were registered and that she followed the rules). Sadly it didn't save her life.

I think it is particularly horrifying that there are still XLBs in homes with children, who do not understand the danger and did not make the choice to live with an XLB.

There were neighbours who said they had never seen them being walked or in the garden so the dogs were likely to be hyper and the slightest thing would set them off ..

 

[splashgirl45]

Woman attacked by her own XL bullies in Edinburgh flat

The woman was seriously hurt and the dogs were euthanised after the attack in Leith.

www.bbc.co.uk

A flat doesn’t sound like a good place for an XL bully , in fact to have a dog in a flat and do it properly it takes a lot of work to make sure the dog has plenty of exercise outdoors , I was in a flat and had to look after 2 small dogs so that involved walking them in the morning , popping home and walking them at lunchtime and then a good walk in the evening … not easy but has to be done

 

[skinnydipper]

Baby mauled by pocket bully dog in 'tragic accident'

The baby's skull was fractured

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[skinnydipper]

WARNING. Photo of the bite

Girl, 8, attacked by XL Bully-type dog left with bloody bite marks

The XL Bully-type dog attacked the eight-year-old girl leaving her with bloody bite marks at a caravan park in Holt Heath, near Worcester.

www.worcesternews.co.uk

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Oh my goodness, I didn't realise that a pocket bully could be a mix of an American Bully and a Patterdale! I absolutely adored my Patterdales but cross them with an American Bully, what's not to like?

She said the pocket bully — a breed which can either be a cross between an American bully and a Patterdale terrier, or simply a smaller version of an American bully

 

[Smitty]

Man was giving a boy a high-five before being attacked by XL Bully

Nottingham Crown Court heard how the police have been unable to find Gooch since he left the victim so badly injured with bite marks that he was in hospital for a week

www.walesonline.co.uk

This is indefensible imo. I can't imagine having a dog in a public place that will attack if you high 5 someone.

I wonder if it will ever dawn on the bully brigade that they do warrant being on the banned list and should be muzzled for public safety.

 

[Smitty]

Baby mauled by pocket bully dog in 'tragic accident'

The baby's skull was fractured

www.walesonline.co.uk

I may be wrong but I believe a full patterdale killed a baby some years ago. Anyway, I can't understand why she's not been banned from having dogs. Poor child, wonder how he will feel about the incident in years to come.

 

[ester]

I’m not convinced the patterdale bit isn’t poor reporting.

 

[Clodagh]

Baby mauled by pocket bully dog in 'tragic accident'

The baby's skull was fractured

www.walesonline.co.uk

It’s not a tragic accident now, is it? It is flipwittery at its finest.

 

[slimjim86]

There was very little information in the short paragraph published last night, just when, where, that one person was dead and two XLBs involved. I have now gone and read today's updated version and it is sad that the owner was killed and she was one of the ones following the new law.

IMO it proves the ban was a good thing; these two dogs clearly had the propensity to kill a human but the opportunities to do so were reduced by the owner putting muzzles and leads on them in public (the reports say they were registered and that she followed the rules). Sadly it didn't save her life.

I think it is particularly horrifying that there are still XLBs in homes with children, who do not understand the danger and did not make the choice to live with an XLB.

You just know that thir fans will say the ban caused this, its coz they couldn't exercise them properly now they have to be on leads, the poor dogs are frustrated coz they can't socialise properly now as they have to wear a muzzle etc.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I’m not convinced the patterdale bit isn’t poor reporting.

Let's hope so, I can't think of a more worrying cross breed.

 

[skinnydipper]

Let's hope so, I can't think of a more worrying cross breed.

It's true unfortunately.

Pocket bullies:
Playful, energetic goofballs, affectionate, very gentle dogs


ETA. https://cbtdogbehaviour.com/pocket-bully/#:~:text=What is a pocket bully,eager to please their humans.

 

[I'm Dun]

Surely the time has come to have them all PTS? The attacks don't seem to have slowed down at all.

 

[skinnydipper]

The ban on XL Bully dogs still doesn't go far enough

It is a myth that some XLs can be ‘good’ dogs. XLs are basically pitbulls bred to be larger. They behave like pitbulls.

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Smitty]

I’m not convinced the patterdale bit isn’t poor reporting.

I'm not. I have one that was just a vicious little b*********d. These people aren't breeding for good temprament. Some Patterdales bred by a renowned breeder may have Staffy in their lineage to beef things up a bit apparently as one was seen in the kennels. So, mix that combination with an XL or American bully and there you go, a smaller but powerful animal.

 

[ester]

Oh I wasn't saying patts are fine, more that I've never seen a pocket that looks like its had anything to do with a patt and it's 'walesonline' reporting.