Another fatal dog attack

[gunnergundog]

Have you heard of a vet refusing to pts a bully dog ? I can’t imagine they would.

No.....not yet! I have however heard of a vet refusing to pts a healthy young dog of another breed for alleged aggression (not a bull breed at all); the owner refused to sign over the dog. The vet took the money for the pts and the dog popped up in breed rescue.

 

[cauda equina]

And this one - aren't the dogs mentioned Kimbo offspring?

 

[twiggy2]

This was both interesting to read and shockingly sad but worth the read.

Finding Kimbo

At Bully Watch, we began delving into the pedigrees—essentially, the family trees—of dogs from the most well-known Bully XL kennels across the UK. Our investigation steered us down a trail where on…

bullywatch.link

I can't help but feel he is a scape goat, he won't be the only one with so much inbreeding and despite everyone's concerns there was still and is still a thriving market for his offspring, we are such clever creatures as a whole aren't we?

Is this another one?

Boy, 10, is mauled by out-of-control dog as he plays football outside home

Footage shows a boy, aged 10, as he is attacked by an out-of-control dog while playing football on his front drive in Walsall, with the animal locking onto him as his family try and free him

www.mirror.co.uk

That is such a shocking video, poor lad and no one gets hold of the dog, the guy in the car doesn't get out for ages and who is the guy who just saunters in with his hands in his pockets at the end?
What we are seeing with these dogs just seems to be a representation of really damaged sectors of society when you see videos like that.
And you know I for one would keep my dogs on lead and muzzled (when they are not working and in public spaces) for the rest of my days with no hesitation if if prevented just one attack on innocent people. It won't prevent attacks in the home I know but it would make policing it all so much easier, any dog not on lead and muzzled would be so obvious.

 

[twiggy2]

Have you heard of a vet refusing to pts a bully dog ? I can’t imagine they would.

Not in person no but mastiffs and staffies amongst other breeds that have shown aggression or severe nervous aggression I have first and second hand experience of PTS being refused yes.
I no longer work in the veterinary industry so am unlikely to experience it first hand now.

 

[marmalade76]

He talks a lot of sense but is also, whilst advocating for them, admitting that they are very dangerous dogs

It's got to be ego - "oh look ar me, I'm such a great dog trainer I can successfully train a dangerous, powerful, difficult to train dog that could easily kill me and turn it into a model citizen"

 

[Titchy Pony]

I can't help but feel he is a scape goat, he won't be the only one with so much inbreeding and despite everyone's concerns there was still and is still a thriving market for his offspring, we are such clever creatures as a whole aren't we?

That is such a shocking video, poor lad and no one gets hold of the dog, the guy in the car doesn't get out for ages and who is the guy who just saunters in with his hands in his pockets at the end?
What we are seeing with these dogs just seems to be a representation of really damaged sectors of society when you see videos like that.
And you know I for one would keep my dogs on lead and muzzled (when they are not working and in public spaces) for the rest of my days with no hesitation if if prevented just one attack on innocent people. It won't prevent attacks in the home I know but it would make policing it all so much easier, any dog not on lead and muzzled would be so obvious.

That is an absolutely terrifying video, that poor child and his family, it must have seemed like forever. I think the man in the car was looking for something to hit the dog with, he seemed rather scared (understandably!) of the dog himself but he was trying to help.

 

[marmalade76]

I've been contacted in the past by a member of staff at a vets looking for an alternative for a dog booked in to be PTS over what was considered a minor infraction (not a Bully) I just passed some contact details on.
The problem is that you can only trust what the owner says when it's booked in, the real reason may be worse/not as bad.

Indeed, which is why if they're asked to put a dog down, they should just do it. As long as the bill is paid, there's no need to ask questions.

 

[cauda equina]

Why would vets refuse to pts a dog that was causing its owner concern?
I can imagine an almighty stink if a dog that had been refused euthanasia subsequently attacked someone - wouldn't the vet who refused bear some responsibility?

 

[Clodagh]

I understand that vets must struggle with pts when it’s entirely the owners fault.
I know it’s contentious on here but any dog that has bitten badly enough to break skin should not be rehomed or ‘rescued’, whatever breed it is.

 

[Landcruiser]

No.....not yet! I have however heard of a vet refusing to pts a healthy young dog of another breed for alleged aggression (not a bull breed at all); the owner refused to sign over the dog. The vet took the money for the pts and the dog popped up in breed rescue.

I don't believe this. No vet would risk their licence like that.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I know someone who has a not bully that was booked in to be PTS and was 'saved' by a vet nurse and the person I know ended up 'rescuing' it. It's not aggressive but has a litany of health issues.

 

[scats]

I’ve got my xl bully customer in next week. His dad text me today asking if I could fit him in, but that he’s not sure what the future holds for his lovely boy. He’s so upset.

My heart is so, so torn about this.

 

[splashgirl45]

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Find local classified ads for dogs and puppies in the UK. Rehome and buy with zero fees, and give an animal a forever home with Preloved!

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Find local classified ads for dogs and puppies in the UK. Rehome and buy with zero fees, and give an animal a forever home with Preloved!

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The last one in particular is terrifying. There are pages of these!!

They are all scarey as so many of them have children. but the owner who has the blue bully bitch also has an un neutered female mastiff as well as another dog imagine taking them for a walk … then the ones who have a bully in a flat …

 

[Clodagh]

They are all scarey as so many of them have children. but the owner who has the blue bully bitch also has an un neutered female mastiff as well as another dog imagine taking them for a walk … then the ones who have a bully in a flat …

I hate these ads as I feel so sorry for the dog. No garden, live in a flat, 4 kids. he must be a saint if he hasn’t killed anyone. I would have done! £150. Fgs that’s just sad.

 

[splashgirl45]

I hate these ads as I feel so sorry for the dog. No garden, live in a flat, 4 kids. he must be a saint if he hasn’t killed anyone. I would have done! £150. Fgs that’s just sad.

It’s what our society is like these days, I want a dog even though I have no garden live in a flat and have multiple kids , now I don’t want it because we haven’t got a garden it’s so depressing that people can’t exist without having absolutely everything they want regardless of the well being of the animals…it’s no wonder that there are so many badly behaved dogs around these days , I also feel sorry for the dogs they are in a no win situation

 

[Goldenstar]

Those ads are terrible and the one for blue one ad reads just like an ad for a dodgy horse just enough of a clue to say well did say in the ad.
I feel for these dogs and the owners of the one who are nice family pets who have never transgressed but enough is enough it’s a daily thing that you read of people mauled and children maimed .
A dog of that size kept in a flat needs a lot of walking to keep it right and people get in over their heads very easily .
Its the parents of young children that get me what are they thinking when they get a dog like that .

 

[gunnergundog]

I don't believe this. No vet would risk their licence like that.

Believe what you will....I was offered the dog by rescue and that is what I was told. The vet deemed the dog not to be aggressive. From what I have heard....haven't met the dog....I think the vet was probably correct (assuming I have been told the truth by those who have assessed it) and it was a case of numpty owners. I may be wrong however....

There are straight and corrupt in all professions. I am not condoning what this person did, but it must be very hard putting a healthy dog to sleep, let alone one you have dealt with for years for vaccinations and all the mundane crap without any issues.
Vets have lost their licences for a lot less..being creative with horse vacc certs for instance.

 

[tristar]

What does it matter if they are crosses?. I don't understand the need to fine-tune the "breed" as such: there are enough characteristics that are common to these types of dogs that it should be simple enough to define "of pitbull type" and leave it at that.

well its the government not me thats doing it!

they are to work on defining

do you really think they are going to have a mass slaughter of the good, the bad, and the ugly bad

are you saying the whole lot should be gone even crosses, cos that aint gonna happen is it?

the place to start is the breeder, ban breeding anymore, including the crosses

it may not be democratic but neither is being chewed to death by dog left to run the streets


all this is result of lax legislation around dog ownership which has been talked about for as long as i can remember and nothing has changed


and why does ireland not do something about puppy farms? they are the most disgusting thing, perhaps the british govenment needs to sort that out as well

 

[skinnydipper]

Why would vets refuse to pts a dog that was causing its owner concern?

It could be the owner/environment that's causing the problem.

If a dog has bitten what has it gone through before it got the point where it felt it had no option but to bite? How many signs were missed? Why was help not sought sooner?

A different environment with a different owner could make all the difference.

 

[Birker2020]

On holiday in Wales and just flitting through the forum quickly so apologies if already mentioned. We heard on the radio that someone in Walsall had been bitten badly, didn't catch anymore as we lost reception in the 'valeees'. Its getting ridiculous. That's the third in this area now.

 

[cauda equina]

It could be the owner/environment that's causing the problem.

If a dog has bitten what has it gone through before it got the point where it felt it had no option but to bite? How many signs were missed? Why was help not sought sooner?

A different environment with a different owner could make all the difference.

Well possibly but if the owner wants rid of it who is going to take the time and trouble to find the perfect home?
And if a change of home doesn't make all the difference there could be an attack that needn't have happened if the vet had pts when asked

eta on horse threads there is generally agreement that pts is not a welfare issue - is it different for dogs?

 

[skinnydipper]

Well possibly but if the owner wants rid of it who is going to take the time and trouble to find the perfect home?
And if a change of home doesn't make all the difference there could be an attack that needn't have happened if the vet had pts when asked

I don't think a vet refusing to put a dog to sleep on behavioural grounds would be a decision they would make lightly.

A good rescue organisation would evaluate and place in a more suitable home.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Isn't there a grading system for bite severity? I might have made that up. If not I do think bites at the severe end or if they have gone for head/neck area should be one way ticket to PTS. There is a world of difference between a nip and being mauled.

 

[skinnydipper]

Isn't there a grading system for bite severity? I might have made that up. If not I do think bites at the severe end or if they have gone for head/neck area should be one way ticket to PTS. There is a world of difference between a nip and being mauled.

Dr Ian Dunbar's dog bite scale.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes there’s a difference between a defensive nip and being mauled and devil with any law will be with the detail.
But something’s are clear and simple two dogs who have mauled a man to death need to gone .
A dog that runs full tilt up a child and drags the child to the ground needs to be dead it does not matter that child may not have been badly injured.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Dr Ian Dunbar's dog bite scale.

Thanks!

I'm torn on the banning thing. One the one hand I don't support BSL because long-term it's not going to be effective, but equally I am a 'something must be done-er' because something really does need to be done. It's getting crazy that people are being essentially attacked at random (I know it isn't really random) out in public places.

It annoys me because Suella Braverman gets to look good and like the government is doing something but in reality it's more likely to be another bit of legislation not actually being enforced. So much is already covered by DDA but how much of that is actually ever used? We had a shocking example local to me recently, disaster waiting to happen right next to a school, police and council not interested.

I'd much rather see specialist police/dog warden roles, perhaps that straddle police forces and local authorities to stop the 'it's their problem not ours' thing. I think they could also take away euthanasia decisions from vets - i.e., if they have assessed a dog is to be put down, it is put down not 'rescued' (to probably live a miserable life on a prong collar having been 'trained' by someone with too much ego). It could also support child safeguarding in LAs because I can imagine some of these family set ups are an absolute nightmare for social workers and health visitors. But then that would involve actually doing something and funding a public service which is not our current government's MO really.

 

[Birker2020]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of these dogs were given steroids to make them flip in the way they do. I'm talking about the type of XL Bully that are owned specifically as guarding dogs, like the hard nut type of fraternity who think it looks 'hard' to hard a dog hanging off each hand.

 

[Apercrumbie]

How do you think the ban will work for existing dogs? Will they be allowed to live out their days but obviously without breeding?

 

[SilverLinings]

How do they propose doing that? DNA testing? At whose expense? And what about the lovely family dogs (yes, we all know there are some amongst the bullys) Are they going to just take dogs away?

I just heard an article about it on the radio news (BBC) and they said breeding and importing will be banned, but current dogs can be kept if they pass temerament testing. If they pass the testing they will need to be muzzled and on a lead in public places*, but if they fail they will be PTS.

The article annoyed me though, as the only interviewees were XL Bully owners and a dog groomer who has several as clients, and they all just went on about how they are lovely dogs and they've never known one to bite. There was no comment in the article about the fact that this breed has been disproportionately responsible for a high number of attacks on humans. Alarmingly one owner said that his bully had 'been brought up with' his 18 month old nephew, and has looked after the child since he was a baby.

The groomer said aggression is ALWAYS the result of the owner training them to be aggressive, and there was no recognition that some dogs are naturally aggressive, or that breeding/inbreeding can have an affect on temperament. The piece as a whole just sounded like 'poor persecuted XL Bullys and their owners' with no facts about risk or the number of attacks.

*ETA it also said they will have to be neutered and chipped.

 

[SilverLinings]

There was a letter to the Times yesterday from a dog warden who was calling for dog wardens to be able to carry tazers to use in the case of a dog attack.

With a dog the size and strength of an XL Bully it is difficult for an unarmed person to get them off the victim and subdue them, and currently the only option is waiting for a police firearms unit to arrive which can take some time (possibly too long for the victim). Presumably there would be a risk of killing the dog with a tazer, but in that sort of dog attack the dog is likely to be destroyed as a result anyway (either by the police firearms unit, or the result of a court order).