Another fatal dog attack

[Tiddlypom]

so glad i have a 6 inch J R T although in my life i have nearly, been bitten by more J T R s than any other breed

Me too. Growing up, the feared breed that my parents warned me to be wary of was the Alsatian, as they were then known. But in practice, I was nipped a number of times by various grumpy farm JRTs. While JRTs can and have killed a baby, mostly from jealously, they are unlikely to seriously injure an adult out minding their own business in public. I did get chased along the road on my bike very recently by a farm JRT - he'd have nipped me if he'd caught up with me. (He's normally shut in after multiple similar episodes with cars, bikes, horses, but for some reason he was out).

I'm all in favour of all dogs to be on a lead in public places. There are so many borderline or actually out of control dogs out there that its getting scary out there now, whether you are a dog person or not, or whether you've got a dog with you or not.

 

[scats]

I’ve got my XL bully in tomorrow for his groom. His owners are lovely and I’m interested in chatting to them to see how they are feeling about things. I know they were very worried when they text me last week, but I also know they will do whatever they have to to keep him, whether that be muzzle him, neuter him etc
They already keep him on lead in public.

I’ve noticed a few dog trainers on FB offering to help muzzle train dogs for free for people.

 

[cauda equina]

A petition going around - good luck with banning 'horrible owners'.
In fact I'd like to see horrible people of any sort banned

Should they ban American XL Bullies or should they ban horrible owners​

 

[bonny]

A petition going around - good luck with banning 'horrible owners'.
In fact I'd like to see horrible people of any sort banned

Should they ban American XL Bullies or should they ban horrible owners​

View attachment 123428

Something as well written as that certainly makes you sit up and take notice!

 

[Caol Ila]

A petition going around - good luck with banning 'horrible owners'.
In fact I'd like to see horrible people of any sort banned

Should they ban American XL Bullies or should they ban horrible owners​

View attachment 123428

Can I start a petition against petitions that are woefully short on spelling, punctuation, and grammar?

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's a boring old trope and also a bit slanderous to claim that someone who bought a bully in good faith and it was fine until it attacked someone, were beating them/fighting them/it was abandoned/it was a drugs dog (a what, now?!).

The majority of dog attacks are carried out by 'pets'.

See also 'it's a rescue/was badly treated/beaten/abandoned'...I don't care, get it out of my/my dog's face.

 

[fankino04]

Can I start a petition against petitions that are woefully short on spelling, punctuation, and grammar?

Or actual facts! Many of these dogs that have turned and attacked family members were those loved and well treated family pet, its not always the gangsters dog that's so hyped up that is creating these headlines. My OH was at a clients yesterday who trains and sells personal protection dogs ( has a lot of cane corsos, rotties, dobes and GSDs), I asked him to get this guys take on it as he is involved with dogs that would be classed as dangerous dogs all day. He said there's no simple answer as it's a multi faceted problem, mostly it's genetics and the dogs aren't being responsibly bred to put emphasis on parents temperament, lack of training, and also a change in the type of training being given to people these days where reprimanding your dog is frowned upon. He says obviously he doesn't physically beat his dogs but he is authoritarian with them and they get a clear understanding of boundaries from the beginning and he says that is sorely missing these days. He also said to stop a big dog when it's in attack mode you take your belt off and choke it till it passes out, I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to risk the redirect before it passed out with one of these dogs though.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Lol, I think I've been saying all of those things for years. Nothing to sell, though.

It always seems like people (mostly men) who charge for their services seem to get taken more seriously. I know someone who will pay 50 quid a session for exactly the same as what they'll hear from me (because I trained with the one who made a business out of it).

 

[tristar]

Me too. Growing up, the feared breed that my parents warned me to be wary of was the Alsatian, as they were then known. But in practice, I was nipped a number of times by various grumpy farm JRTs. While JRTs can and have killed a baby, mostly from jealously, they are unlikely to seriously injure an adult out minding their own business in public. I did get chased along the road on my bike very recently by a farm JRT - he'd have nipped me if he'd caught up with me. (He's normally shut in after multiple similar episodes with cars, bikes, horses, but for some reason he was out).

I'm all in favour of all dogs to be on a lead in public places. There are so many borderline or actually out of control dogs out there that its getting scary out there now, whether you are a dog person or not, or whether you've got a dog with you or not.

it is quite scary out there when you think about it, i am not sure what would happen if i picked my J T R up off the floor, how would you fight off a big dog yourself?

the last time it was a lassie collie, i had to grab him out of its mouth, the collie grabbed him out of the car

agree about dogs being on leads in public it would be a good start, probably save a lot of small dogs from injury or worse

but how do stop breakouts from yards and gardens

 

[CanteringCarrot]

He says obviously he doesn't physically beat his dogs but he is authoritarian with them and they get a clear understanding of boundaries from the beginning and he says that is sorely missing these days. He also said to stop a big dog when it's in attack mode you take your belt off and choke it till it passes out, I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to risk the redirect before it passed out with one of these dogs though.

He is not wrong. I did a lot of research (which included reading, hands on, discussions, and other training) when I got my first Cane Corso. I had been around them already quite a bit and made some observations, but I took things seriously. They, as most animals, need a clear understanding of boundaries. You don't need to be super alpha boss, but you do ultimately have to be the leader.

There is a bit more leeway with my Lab (and previous Labs), but with these other types that are, IMO, smarter than the average Lab, have a protective instinct, and are more of the "thinking for themselves" type, you really do need to be in the ball with things.

I think that some don't want to be labeled as abusive if they enforce something or reprimand their dog. If done right, it isn't abuse though. Sometimes even being firm, but fair, earns you a stink eye. God forbid you have defined boundaries and/or absolutes.

You do have to hit the ground running too. You can enjoy the cuteness of a puppy, but training starts the day that I acquire them. Some breedersbegin "planting the seeds" even before they go to their new homes. I think some are just like, "Oh, it's a puppy" and go on about it being adorable and it's ok for certain mistakes or behaviors because puppy. To some extent yes, a puppy is not a full grown and/or trained dog.

It always seems like people (mostly men) who charge for their services seem to get taken more seriously. I know someone who will pay 50 quid a session for exactly the same as what they'll hear from me (because I trained with the one who made a business out of it).

Funny thing, innit?

 

[marmalade76]

Me too. Growing up, the feared breed that my parents warned me to be wary of was the Alsatian, as they were then known. But in practice, I was nipped a number of times by various grumpy farm JRTs. While JRTs can and have killed a baby, mostly from jealously, they are unlikely to seriously injure an adult out minding their own business in public. I did get chased along the road on my bike very recently by a farm JRT - he'd have nipped me if he'd caught up with me. (He's normally shut in after multiple similar episodes with cars, bikes, horses, but for some reason he was out).

I'm all in favour of all dogs to be on a lead in public places. There are so many borderline or actually out of control dogs out there that its getting scary out there now, whether you are a dog person or not, or whether you've got a dog with you or not.

I grew up with GSDs and Dobes and I've never even been nipped by a dog.

 

[Smitty]

Postman attacked by dog 'thought he might die' as he was dragged to ground

The dog attack resulted in Royal Mail suspending postal deliveries to the street, leaving residents without mail for almost six months

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

but how do stop breakouts from yards and gardens

Well it can be done, but it takes a lot of thought, expense and dedication to the dogs you are trying to safely contain.

Our large and stranger aggressive labrador to keep other people who might come on our property safe, and to keep the smaller lab 'determined runner and hunter' safe from her own wild behaviour rampaging across the countryside at risk of being shot. It would have been far easier to return both 3 year old dogs to their previous owners, but that was never going to happen as we truly believed previous mishandling or even neglect of proper training from puppy hood was as much to blame as their genetic dispositions.

We dipped into the emergency kitty and did a good bit extreme fencing and some basic retraining and eventually they are safe, other people and farm animals are also safe and we have two gorgeous labradors that we adore.

 

[Clodagh]

I’ve been bitten by various dogs when fighting but none of them aimed it at me, it was just I was in the way. This was in Australia where I hung out with dubious characters with dubious dogs. I will say though none of them was remotely aggressive to people, ever.
The only two dogs that have really bitten me in anger were Border Terriers!

 

[Clodagh]

I find it fascinating though that people, some on here, who have always been totally for positive training and all things can be taught with love and patience now actually agree that sometimes you have to tell a dog what to do.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I got nipped a few times as a kid by other peoples' dogs because I was a bit dumb and thought all dogs were as good with kids as our own but I didn't get properly bitten until I was about 30, but I was by then consciously and voluntarily dealing with a spicier type of dog by then.
Mostly my fault and through sticking hands where I shouldn't have.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I certainly didn't get any sympathy or apologies for getting nipped by the farm terriers when I was a child, I was presumed to have got too close to them and thus annoyed them .Though I never was a cuddler or fusser of strange dogs.

Tough love in different times...

It's rather funny that we have had JRTs for the last 30+ years, and we love the little s0ds .

 

[CorvusCorax]

I was just deeply embarrassed, including the time when I could have got the only other dog in the class disqualified for nipping my arse, but didn't, and came second to the 'orrible thing.

 

[ponyparty]

Postman attacked by dog 'thought he might die' as he was dragged to ground

The dog attack resulted in Royal Mail suspending postal deliveries to the street, leaving residents without mail for almost six months

www.birminghammail.co.uk

My postie got bitten by a dog last week. Sounds like he was very lucky it wasn’t a lot worse - he just managed to get through a gate in time and got bitten as he shut the gate after him. Dog meant business.

 

[CorvusCorax]

My dogs rarely see the post(wo)man. There's absolutely no need for them to come into contact with callers or visitors. If they do it's if I come around from the back of the house with them on a leash and there's no contact made. She also has Shepherds at home.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I find it fascinating though that people, some on here, who have always been totally for positive training and all things can be taught with love and patience now actually agree that sometimes you have to tell a dog what to do.

I think that it's all part of a learning process. I do think that a lot can be taught with love and patience. You can tell a dog what to do out of love, and still exercise a certain amount of patience. There doesn't have to be this dichotomy that telling a dog what to do does not involve any form of love or patience.

I think part of loving your dog is finding the approach and training that is best for them and for your goals as well. If you love a dog, you want to set them up for success, typically. Patience is sometimes exercised through consistency. Some lose their patience when a dog doesn't do it correctly in the first go. In some instances, like leash training one of my dogs, I had to exercise patience and consistency to show her that pulling was unacceptable (Lab). She learned quickly but it wasn't one session and done. I also didn't rough her around either.

You can still use positive training and tell a dog what to do and show them the "absolutes" and boundaries. It's a fine balance with some dogs. If it's all negative, harsh, or forceful, some will shut down, become nervous, or even aggressive. You also can't be too "light" on things either.

 

[Smitty]

I think the poor postie had handed the mail to an occupier and the dog jumped the 3' fence. He had already booted the attacking JRT he had been warned about.

The poor man thought he would die, although looking on the bright side, it's owner did offer him a joint to get over the trauma

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

The only dog that has seriously attacked me was a German shepherd. I was working in Belgium as a groom and the dog was the resident bodyguard. I was assured by the owners (my employers) that I was properly introduced to it so I would be quite safe roaming around the yard and garden etc. One morning about 2 weeks later I was walking from the stables to the house and the damned animal flew across the garden and grabbed me by the arm and pulled me over and started to rag me. He had been perfectly grand with me up until then. Luckily the resident gardener saw what happened and very quickly had the dog off me. I flew home 3 days later with a bandaged arm and life long aversion to the breed.

I have had a few nips off various JRT's that we have owned over the years, but only by accident if I got between them and suspected rat or mouse activity.

 

[Quigleyandme]

When I was a baby we lived next door to my auntie who bred boxers. She would often babysit me which involved putting me in the kennel with her bitch and latest litter so she could get on with stuff or just because I was getting on her top note. She might have picked up any poo first and I might have been given my own bowl of farex rather than just taking my place at the communal bowl but I couldn’t swear to it.

 

[Smitty]

Devon man's guide dog attacked by bully XL dog

A man who is registered blind recalls when his assistance dog was attacked by a bully XL dog.

www.bbc.co.uk

And this is just awful. I believe there is a separate law for service dogs though. Hope owner of offending dog was put through the mill.

 

[cauda equina]

I think the poor postie had handed the mail to an occupier and the dog jumped the 3' fence. He had already booted the attacking JRT he had been warned about.

The poor man thought he would die, although looking on the bright side, it's owner did offer him a joint to get over the trauma

Liverpool Crown Court heard that owner Joseph Blaney, 37, offered Mr McKay a joint 'to calm down' and told him he would kill the dog himself, so he didn't have to report the incident. Blaney appeared in court on Friday and pleaded guilty to owning a dog dangerously out of control, causing injury.

and the judge thought this guy is capable of being a responsible owner!!!!

 

[Gloi]

Liverpool Crown Court heard that owner Joseph Blaney, 37, offered Mr McKay a joint 'to calm down' and told him he would kill the dog himself, so he didn't have to report the incident. Blaney appeared in court on Friday and pleaded guilty to owning a dog dangerously out of control, causing injury.

and the judge thought this guy is capable of being a responsible owner!!!!

There are nowhere near severe enough punishments for these owners

 

[Clodagh]

I think that it's all part of a learning process. I do think that a lot can be taught with love and patience. You can tell a dog what to do out of love, and still exercise a certain amount of patience. There doesn't have to be this dichotomy that telling a dog what to do does not involve any form of love or patience.

I think part of loving your dog is finding the approach and training that is best for them and for your goals as well. If you love a dog, you want to set them up for success, typically. Patience is sometimes exercised through consistency. Some lose their patience when a dog doesn't do it correctly in the first go. In some instances, like leash training one of my dogs, I had to exercise patience and consistency to show her that pulling was unacceptable (Lab). She learned quickly but it wasn't one session and done. I also didn't rough her around either.

You can still use positive training and tell a dog what to do and show them the "absolutes" and boundaries. It's a fine balance with some dogs. If it's all negative, harsh, or forceful, some will shut down, become nervous, or even aggressive. You also can't be too "light" on things either.

I won’t continue this conversation as I sound like a dog batterer. Just to say I never hit, kick or yank my dogs.

 

[Chucho]

Thing is that the average person can recognise overt play behaviour, maybe appeasement behaviours, and overtly aggressive behaviours. But behaviour doesn't come out of nowhere, there's always a period of rehearsal and what the average person isn't very good at is reading the subtle cues that build to the more overt ones. You can see it from puppy behaviours when they try out all sorts. With resource guarding it can be as simple as how the dog chooses to position itself in relation to you and others when in company. A curve of the body, head position, subtle tension. It's so much easier to spot with between dog interactions e.g. when they're not switching who gets the toy during play. And some dogs are more subtle in their way of being than others. But when it's you they're guarding, it seems to be a human tendency to assume that the dog is demonstrating affection and preference towards you rather than possessive tendencies.

I view myself as a moderator of interactions and an enforcer of boundaries rather than leader per se. We try really hard to pick up on any early cues and interrupt behaviours before they get accustomed to rehearsing them. Then there is no need to be particularly assertive about it. And everyone is happier because expectations are clear and we the owners behave consistently. The dogs find it more difficult when we behave erratically. i.e. allow things and then give a disproportionate no - which doesn't make sense to them as they've been allowed to do those things for a while. We don't always get it right. Using positive reinforcement doesn't mean no boundaries. But enforcing boundaries doesn't mean you have to be punitive either (I say that as over here so much training is not science-based and many people are much more physical than I believe is appropriate or necessary if you put the effort in to train properly throughout the life of an individual).

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I won’t continue this conversation as I sound like a dog batterer. Just to say I never hit, kick or yank my dogs.

Well, I'm not going to sit here and act like I don't verbally batter the Labrador when I see her eat poop