Another fatal dog attack

[AmyMay]

Don’t like Shar pei’s at all.

My grandmothers very jealous toy poodle used to head butt me as a child as she had no teeth to bite me with

 

[stangs]

Fascinating how quickly people go on the defensive as soon as their own breed or lifestyle is implicated. Just goes to show that what a role NIMBYism has in people advocating for BSL...

 

[stangs]

Back on topic, I'm not sure how bite statistics are relevant for the sort of dangerous dogs legislation being discussed on this thread. Loath as I am to criticise statistics that frequently prove BSL is useless, most bite statistics I've found don't distinguish between dog bites/attacks in the home and dog bites/attacks by stranger's dogs.

The problem is that people only care about the latter case. If XL bullies were only killing their owners, there would be nowhere near as much press about the attacks, in the same way that stabbings involving mistaken identity get more attention than stabbings between gangs. The victims would be blamed as being idiots for owning the dog (that's happened on this very thread!) and everything would blow over.

It's just when 'civilians' are in trouble or at risk that people start caring, which gets politicians involved, claiming they're trying to protect the community, and therefore results in new legislation.

 

[AmyMay]

Fascinating how quickly people go on the defensive as soon as their own breed or lifestyle is implicated. Just goes to show that what a role NIMBYism has in people advocating for BSL...

Eh?

 

[Clodagh]

Back on topic, I'm not sure how bite statistics are relevant for the sort of dangerous dogs legislation being discussed on this thread. Loath as I am to criticise statistics that frequently prove BSL is useless, most bite statistics I've found don't distinguish between dog bites/attacks in the home and dog bites/attacks by stranger's dogs.

The problem is that people only care about the latter case. If XL bullies were only killing their owners, there would be nowhere near as much press about the attacks, in the same way that stabbings involving mistaken identity get more attention than stabbings between gangs. The victims would be blamed as being idiots for owning the dog (that's happened on this very thread!) and everything would blow over.

It's just when 'civilians' are in trouble or at risk that people start caring, which gets politicians involved, claiming they're trying to protect the community, and therefore results in new legislation.

If they only killed their owners surely that would just be the Darwin theory proven.
And if the breed thing was aimed at me I accept labs bite more people than most, and there’s a lot more labs than most anything else. How many people have been killed in the last 6 months by Labradors?

 

[tristar]

i saw a thing today man about 30 ish riding a bike with two dogs in his left hand, both on leads, trotting along side him, as i was driving around an island, he came up behind me so i was watching him through wing mirror, we stopped at the lights, when the lights changed he started off a bit wobbly but gained momentum and off they went, dogs going at the gallop man just sat there being pulled along, they really were travelling, and they were i think pit bulls, one white with ears all over the shop, the other dark brindle, both going like trains!

 

[skinnydipper]

"A mastiff-type dog and an XL Bully were seized in South Yorkshire"


“We’re urging dog owners of all breeds to up their efforts in keeping everyone safe. Please stop thinking ‘my dog wouldn’t do that’, ‘my dog wouldn’t bite my child’. This can happen to anyone.

During this month, we have already seen several children requiring hospital treatment for attacks by their own family pets, innocent dog walkers being left with serious injuries by loose dogs and officers suffering injury during their response.”

Police have grave fears dog will kill soon after string of serious attacks

A mastiff-type dog and an XL Bully were seized in South Yorkshire

www.examinerlive.co.uk

 

[I'm Dun]

So biting people doesn't count?

No, by propensity I mean large dogs that are bred for fighting or guarding. The ones that appear on the list of fatal attacks. Obviously, there will always be some outliers, but it tends to be the same breeds. Apart from XL bullies, there should be no reason you cant own a GSD or rottie etc, but making it harder for people will put a lot of idiots off.

 

[Caol Ila]

Found an XL bully today while I was out riding. The owners pulled to one side of the trail, and I steered my horse as far into the bushes as physically possible on the other side. As we passed, the damned thing lunged at us, and I could see that the bloke on the other end of the lead was hanging on for all he was worth. Eeek. I said to OH, "Yeah, they want to ban those and require existing ones to wear a muzzle when out in public. I think that's a great idea."

I'm cautious of GSDs and collies if they don't appear trained or on lead, but they will mostly snap and nip at the horse and try to herd it if things go south. But those bulldog-types with pitbull blood would try to take your horse down if they had the opportunity. Nope, nope, and more nope.

We saw the dog again -- they were on a trail that cut back to the one we were on, but appeared above us. I made my horse walk real slow and have a few snack breaks (she was happy!) to let them get far, far ahead of us.

 

[Smitty]

I do a lot of camping and a lot of campsites state they do not accept pit bull or any bull breed mix, rottweilers, staffs, GSDs. I have always assumed this to be an insurance condition and as such would surely be based on levels of risk. Have never seen Labs banned!!

 

[SadKen]

I do a lot of camping and a lot of campsites state they do not accept pit bull or any bull breed mix, rottweilers, staffs, GSDs. I have always assumed this to be an insurance condition and as such would surely be based on levels of risk. Have never seen Labs banned!!

Yes I’ve seen this and with holiday cottages too. we have two GSD and check every time we camp that our two are allowed even if it doesn’t specify. We have been declined on many occasions.

They’re big, they are a risk statistically even though not as individuals. When we bought them we had to interview for both, showing we understood training, the needs of the dog, and the breeders had history of taking dogs back for rehoming where it didn’t work out. Indeed one of them will no longer sell to people without verified GSD experience. The other asked for references from vet, checked which trainer we used, and we showed both breeders videos of our existing dog doing some basic training. They quizzed us on hours we worked, what our plans were to exercise our dogs etc. These are the breeders I will buy from; it would be unethical to contribute to the problem with perception of the breed.

 

[Moobli]

Just another reminder about what off lead dogs both can do, and do do far too often. Posted yesterday by the local Police Rural Crime Team.

*graphic photos*

No dog should be off lead if there is livestock about, and quite often when walking in the countryside you can't be sure whether there might be farm animals around or not.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02pL14yy3mJiTA36gRVjVbwYurha5oq26YTo2MVgqMCot1D9ErkMMejamzM2RSnpsLl&id=100064929210943

I'm really not sure how those who thinking keeping a dog on a lead is an onerous misery for both owner and dog go about walking their dogs on leads. Our JRT is always on lead due to suspect recall around small furries, and she has a grand time with plenty of stops and sniffs. It's not an at heel route march .

It is awful and happens far too frequently (and always has). Unfortunately though many of the more serious attacks (multiple animals killed or injured) is when dogs have escaped from properties rather than when being walked. I’m not trivialising the problem (why would I? I own my own sheep and my livelihood depends on sheep).
It would be a start if anyone who owned a dog was required to do the full KC Good Citizen course (or similar) before allowing dogs off lead or if there were a magic wand that would make everyone in society more responsible for their actions and those of their dogs. If only.

 

[Goldenstar]

I do a lot of camping and a lot of campsites state they do not accept pit bull or any bull breed mix, rottweilers, staffs, GSDs. I have always assumed this to be an insurance condition and as such would surely be based on levels of risk. Have never seen Labs banned!!

No that will be the individuals business owners personal choice .

 

[Clodagh]

When we bought them we had to interview for both, showing we understood training, the needs of the dog, and the breeders had history of taking dogs back for rehoming where it didn’t work out. Indeed one of them will no longer sell to people without verified GSD experience. The other asked for references from vet, checked which trainer we used, and we showed both breeders videos of our existing dog doing some basic training. They quizzed us on hours we worked, what our plans were to exercise our dogs etc. These are the breeders I will buy from; it would be unethical to contribute to the problem with perception of the breed.

Every breeder I have used I’ve been interviewed, needed references and access to my fb postings (younger breeders!). Trouble is IF I WANTED A DOG NOW!!!!! it’s quicker to get the first one you see on preloved.

 

[splashgirl45]

They sound like the best sort of breeders, sadly it seems that most of the breeders now just want money and are not interested in anything else[

QUOTE="SadKen, post: 15353834, member: 99281"]
Yes I’ve seen this and with holiday cottages too. we have two GSD and check every time we camp that our two are allowed even if it doesn’t specify. We have been declined on many occasions.

They’re big, they are a risk statistically even though not as individuals. When we bought them we had to interview for both, showing we understood training, the needs of the dog, and the breeders had history of taking dogs back for rehoming where it didn’t work out. Indeed one of them will no longer sell to people without verified GSD experience. The other asked for references from vet, checked which trainer we used, and we showed both breeders videos of our existing dog doing some basic training. They quizzed us on hours we worked, what our plans were to exercise our dogs etc. These are the breeders I will buy from; it would be unethical to contribute to the problem with perception of the breed.
[/QUOTE]

 

[ycbm]

Just another reminder about what off lead dogs both can do, and do do far too often. Posted yesterday by the local Police Rural Crime Team.

*graphic photos*

No dog should be off lead if there is livestock about, and quite often when walking in the countryside you can't be sure whether there might be farm animals around or not.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02pL14yy3mJiTA36gRVjVbwYurha5oq26YTo2MVgqMCot1D9ErkMMejamzM2RSnpsLl&id=100064929210943

I'm really not sure how those who thinking keeping a dog on a lead is an onerous misery for both owner and dog go about walking their dogs on leads. Our JRT is always on lead due to suspect recall around small furries, and she has a grand time with plenty of stops and sniffs. It's not an at heel route march .

In that area there are a lot of deer, too, no dog without perfect recall should be off lead. Macclesfield Forest is where signs were put up that all dogs should be kept on leads. They were all gone within days.
.

 

[Moobli]

so on one single page of this thread we have a man in London attacked and a horse and rider. Both dogs off the lead.. Clearly there is no problem at all. I hope they are all OK.

But also the way the media works is that because dogs are a hot topic right now they jump on every single incident. Of course even one bite is one too many but think of how many pet dogs there are in the UK (something like 12 million) so while we clearly have an issue I’m not sure draconian measures are required for the average pet dog at the moment.
There does however need to be a complete overhaul of dog ownership though - but I’m just repeating myself now.

 

[Moobli]

Yes I’ve seen this and with holiday cottages too. we have two GSD and check every time we camp that our two are allowed even if it doesn’t specify. We have been declined on many .

That’s interesting. I own two GSDs as well as border collies and I’ve only been asked once (at a campsite) what breed of dog I was bringing. They had a ban on bull breeds. I’ve never had a problem taking GSDs to holiday cottages. I own a holiday let myself and don’t prohibit any breed.

 

[I'm Dun]

No that will be the individuals business owners personal choice .

For the last month I've been glamping round Devon and Cornwall with my dogs. Every single place has had the same wording about dog breeds. It must be coming from somewhere. Some add other breeds like GSDs to the list which I assume is personal preference

 

[SadKen]

That’s interesting. I own two GSDs as well as border collies and I’ve only been asked once (at a campsite) what breed of dog I was bringing. They had a ban on bull breeds. I’ve never had a problem taking GSDs to holiday cottages. I own a holiday let myself and don’t prohibit any breed.

Tbh we just check everything now rather than risk it being a problem when we get there. Quite a few had no issue with one GSD, but didn’t want two. Working farm holiday cottages usually prohibit them (and other big breeds) as well, which I imagine is easier than trying to check whether the owner is an imbecile.

We are especially circumspect after our first GSD came camping with us to a car show and in the middle of the night somehow wriggled out of the tent. In a mad panic we found him next morning enjoying breakfast (literally being given bacon sandwiches) with the campers next door. None of them get that opportunity now. I would never have imagined he could have escaped from a zipped tent.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

In that area there are a lot of deer, too, no dog without perfect recall should be off lead. Macclesfield Forest is where signs were put up that all dogs should be kept on leads. They were all gone within days.
.

Our collie has 99% perfect recall. He’s never off the lead when not at home.

I don’t understand why people appear to struggle with keeping their dogs on leads?

Rio is a very attentive, incredibly focused collie where anyone would think he is 100% reliable. He doesn’t chase stock, he respects horses. But there have been two instances in 15 years where he took off and I couldn’t get him back, and it’s just not worth the risk. What if he encounters an unfriendly dog, crosses a road, even gets stolen.

Both instances I understand what happened - once he saw a man very far in the distance who had a very similar look and gait to my late father. Even I had a catch in my throat when I saw him. And the other was a dog that looked like our previous ancient retriever, just after she had died. But I don’t know when he’ll decide to ignore (it was a clear decision in both cases) so he’s not 100%, is he.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

But I don’t know when he’ll decide to ignore (it was a clear decision in both cases) so he’s not 100%, is he

Thats a very good point Lady G. What dog ever can be classed as 100%, I have had several (including numerous collies) that I would have described as 100%, but were they really? They are living, breathing animals with their own inherent capability to ignore a given instruction or display an unexpected behaviour at any given moment should they suddenly decide to do so. It is similar to the 'bomb proof' horse thing isn't it, does such an animal truly exist?

 

[AmyMay]

I don’t understand why people appear to struggle with keeping their dogs on leads?

Why does my dog need to be on a lead here?

 

[marmalade76]

Presumably under these draconian laws working dogs (actually out doing a job) would be exempt? Can’t really work sheep, apprehend criminals, pick up dead birds if muzzled and on the lead .

Presumably sheep dogs and gun dogs would be working on privately owned property rather than on the streets and in public parks.

 

[marmalade76]

I am just reading a discussion from an experienced person offering reduced cost muzzle training about the difficulty in getting muzzles to fit and stay on this type of dog - their heads and necks are often a similar size and apparently if ear cropped it's even easier for them to shake them off.

Can't even muzzle them?? Yet another good reason to ban the bleddy things.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I just think it's better to expect the unexpected.

Re GSDs, I've found a lot of MoPs don't know that a working GSD is a GSD because they're not a saddle pattern black and brown. I've told people mine are all sorts for a laugh and they've believed me, and others also wouldn't believe me when I told them that they were.

 

[SadKen]

I just think it's better to expect the unexpected.

Re GSDs, I've found a lot of MoPs don't know that a working GSD is a GSD because they're not a saddle pattern black and brown. I've told people mine are all sorts for a laugh and they've believed me, and others also wouldn't believe me when I told them that they were.

Will bear this in mind for the next puppy

Edit to say someone once asked if my mostly black GSD was a collie

 

[maisie06]

Having observed and been involved with hundreds of dogs, I can tell you for free that asking most dogs to concentrate for ten minutes will do the same as 30 minutes of aimless running around.

Absolutely second this! I have spaniels and they will run around ALL day and not be tired, do a 15min intense training session and reall make them think really fulfills them mentally. Yesterday I was tiding up the 4 year olds hold on a placeboard, that really tired him out!

Occasionally when I am not feeling like training for whatever reason I do take them to a secure field, were really lucky in that we have a big choice within a 10 min drive and I just let them have a free run without the stress of bumping into other dogs. I live 500m from a beach but never use it as too many bully xl dogs around here - saw a bloke being towed down the road by 2 huge ones yesterday...

 

[blackcob]

Will bear this in mind for the next puppy

Edit to say someone once asked if my mostly black GSD was a collie

I have a mismarked sable, people generally guess collie cross loooooong before they reach GSD.

 

[JoannaC]

I think rescues need to be looked at closer as well. Some don't match dogs to the right owner at all and some dogs would be better off just being PTS. I met a man with a doberman recently, he was in a shop and I walked past him and the dog didn't do a thing. He then spoke to me so I turned towards him at which point the dog reacted by barking aggressively at me. He thought this was hysterical and it was why he spoke to me so the dog would react like this. He then told me it was a rescue which he'd recently got, I mean what sort of rescue gives that breed of dog to a numpty who thinks it's great to get the dog to react. Poor dog it was good as gold until he deliberately made it act like that. He did twice more to other people when I was in the shop.