Boggle- USA bound!

[Michen]

Haha. I really am going to try and rule out this Morgan and then remove myself from all the Facebook groups etc.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Those photos of Boggle @Michen - he looks absolutely spectacular. What a beautiful set of photos to have.

P.s buy a pally like BBP has and we can have an international palomino club

 

[Honey08]

I think you need to start a stud over there. Breed Bog types.

 

[Michen]

wrong thread!

 

[Michen]

Ok so the Morgan.. spoke to the seller. She is a show producer for Arabians and morgans. She is selling on behalf of the breeder/owner. She was very very honest. Said he wasn’t easy to break,he was very suspicious and they took it really slow. His default if he’s worried is flight (not a blind bolt just a scoot forward/move away from it reaction) which she said is a trait of the dam lines he’s from, but once they are on side and understand they are amazing, bold, loyal horses. Apparently he’s the kind of horse that is obsessed with things like big balls and objects and playing with things, he was extremely eager to free jump etc and never worried about poles.

She described him as a little on the spectrum (her words not mine) sensitive with things you wouldn’t expect but bold and inquisitive with things that other horses wouldn’t be. I guess Boggle is a lot like that too! Not a horse you can rush or push into something.

She gave a few examples of quick learning, they clipped him for a show and he was terrified of clippers. But two months later did the same again and he didn’t even need a head collar on. At the same time, he kicked up some dirt on the mounting block and it scared him so they had to re teach that one day and then he was fine.

I suppose any young horse will have a default if something worries them whether it’s flight, spin, buck, rear. Boggles was to explode, that was not fun!! He does sound a little like Bear and he did turn into a wonderful horse but needed lots of time, though I didn’t like his “wetness” when compared to Boggle, but mostly I didn’t like his ride under saddle because of his shape. So I’m bearing that in mind- would I get frustrated with a horse that wasn’t as bold about life as Boggle? Or if I did it right, would this turn into a bold horse. Do I have the abilities to do it right. She said he’s not a sharp horse.

I obviously don’t have much in the way of facilities so that’s a consideration but equally he’s four this year and would benefit from a winter of groundwork and play and then being restarted in spring regardless. I have an arena next door I can use when there’s no snow over it. Apparently his canter has gone very backwards and babyish and she thinks he’s about to grow again, he’s already big for the breed at 15.3hh!

He’s not done any hacking as they don’t have anything where they are other than a busy road. But he was started on long reins so at least he gets that and I could start there too.

I think I should still go see him and get a feel to rule him in or out, and I appreciate her honesty for sure. They seem really keen to make sure he finds the perfect home and are definitely in no rush to sell. I suspect he will be a lot of work, a real project. But there’s the rub I guess, if you want something special you often have to put the work in yourself or pay top dollar and I don’t want to spend that kind of money. She was very clear that this is the kind of horse that will turn into something wonderful but don’t come looking for something that’s anywhere near a finished product or close to it.

I’m also a bit like meh, he’s a good looking stamp of the breed and shouldn’t be too hard to shift if I didn’t like him or it didn’t work out, I’d maybe lose 5k or so from the vetting and shipping.

I think in short this is the kind of horse that if you get it right would be incredible. If you get it wrong you are in a lot of trouble and have a stressed, reactive horse. The question is whether I’ve learned enough from Boggle, Bear and recently Dusty and other horses over the years to actually be capable of getting it right. Cos if I get it wrong I think it would go very wrong

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

[asmp]

I’m sure lots of people with much more experience than me will have knowledgeable things to say but I think you just need to see him and then you’ll know either way. He will feel right or wrong for you,

 

[BBP]

My honest thoughts are that from the description he sounds exactly like BBP (and a bit like my Connemara). And whilst I 100% adored them and worshipped the ground they walk on, they are not easy. BBP wasn’t a ‘go out and have fun’ horse, he was a horse where every day posed some sort of challenge. The Connemara is bolder in himself but suspicious of humans asking him questions. I now firmly believe that the behaviour of both of mine was/is rooted in pain somewhere in their body, providing a sense of vulnerability and insecurity that makes them more reactive than a horse that is truly happy in its body.

Now a more experienced horseman would probably call BS on me and get this Morgan going fine, but it sounds like he is with pro trainers who are already finding him a challenge, so to me unless someone has messed him up already prior to them starting with him, it points back to my original thinking that there will be something physical going on. I would be scrutinising the videos closely for any signs of hypermobility too (as both my boys have it, BBP it was obvious throughout his body, my other pony it’s just his neck you can see it, as he can bend round and scratch himself in the centre of his back anywhere from withers to sacroiliac). The canter going backwards Id want to know what she meant, as that is a bit of a red flag to me too.

 

[Michen]

My honest thoughts are that from the description he sounds exactly like BBP (and a bit like my Connemara). And whilst I 100% adored them and worshipped the ground they walk on, they are not easy. BBP wasn’t a ‘go out and have fun’ horse, he was a horse where every day posed some sort of challenge. The Connemara is bolder in himself but suspicious of humans asking him questions. I now firmly believe that the behaviour of both of mine was/is rooted in pain somewhere in their body, providing a sense of vulnerability and insecurity that makes them more reactive than a horse that is truly happy in its body.

Now a more experienced horseman would probably call BS on me and get this Morgan going fine, but it sounds like he is with pro trainers who are already finding him a challenge, so to me unless someone has messed him up already prior to them starting with him, it points back to my original thinking that there will be something physical going on. I would be scrutinising the videos closely for any signs of hypermobility too (as both my boys have it, BBP it was obvious throughout his body, my other pony it’s just his neck you can see it, as he can bend round and scratch himself in the centre of his back anywhere from withers to sacroiliac). The canter going backwards Id want to know what she meant, as that is a bit of a red flag to me too.

Hmmm yes potentially for sure. I don’t worry about the canter going backwards, I feel like young horses do go through phases and especially if they are growing it’s not unreasonable for them to go a bit weird at times.

I did do some thorough digging and Facebook hunting and everything about his story checks out. Lots of posts showing him as a foal, baby etc and comments about his personality (positive).

I probably need to go see for myself to really know, and given I’m in Seattle next week for work and it’s a one hour ish flight from there it makes it even easier/more justifiable.

ETA I don’t think the trainer finds him challenging as such but is keen he doesn’t end up in the wrong home. And a factor here, and sorry to anyone this may offend but I’m going to say it anyway, the standard of the amateurs here is MUCH lower than the UK in certain disciplines. Most people riding at my level wouldn’t be bringing on a baby themselves. They are heavily reliant on trainers and programs and yadayada. So I can understand the seller being careful that he doesn’t go to a dummy.

 

[BBP]

I’d say just proceed with an extremely cynical eye, and then if you get good vibes at the end, great. (I mean I have just bought one without vetting as I knew it would fail but gave me good vibes so who am I to talk ). I honestly think these suspicious/spectrum ones are that way for a reason so I don’t doubt their story at all, but to me underlying pain of some sort is a massive factor to the sort of thing they described (not the canter but the rest).

He’s lovely though, so like you said I would go visit and see what the feeling is.

 

[Michen]

I’d say just proceed with an extremely cynical eye, and then if you get good vibes at the end, great. (I mean I have just bought one without vetting as I knew it would fail but gave me good vibes so who am I to talk ). I honestly think these suspicious/spectrum ones are that way for a reason so I don’t doubt their story at all, but to me underlying pain of some sort is a massive factor to the sort of thing they described (not the canter but the rest).

He’s lovely though, so like you said I would go visit and see what the feeling is.

I guess it’s always a case of what experience you’ve had. Bear was very like that as a baby, But with him he just needed very careful bringing on and tons of ground work and then he was a gem, so my personal experience isn’t always that it equals pain. Not to say it can’t often be because of that though!

If I was to see him and like him and proceed there’d be a very thorough vetting anyway, luckily it’s much cheaper in Canada!

 

[Petalpoos]

Go and have a look. The seller sounds really genuine and you are clearly interested so see what your gut tells you when you meet him.

 

[Ahrena]

I have to say, I don’t think there are many horses as naturally bold as Bog so if you hold out for one of them you may be waiting a while!

Go see the pony!

 

[Michen]

I have to say, I don’t think there are many horses as naturally bold as Bog so if you hold out for one of them you may be waiting a while!

Go see the pony!

Sigh. I know. But he's a funny one, I mean how do you compare. This morgan apparently loves playing with those big yoga ball things. When I put Boggle in an arena with one he absolutely lost his mind and wouldn't go anywhere near it for 30 minutes. Then when he did, he tried to attack it. Lol.

And whilst Bog is bold and everything he is also in his own way very sensitive. I think most horses with that bit of special in them is going to be a bit quirky.

 

[Ahrena]

The best ones always are in my experience! Playing is great, I have the time of my life watching the boys play although the constant wrecking of ‘stuff’ is frustrating pros and cons

 

[little_critter]

Go and see if you like him as a person.
If you gel, you will be more tolerant / understanding of his quirks and needs.
If you don’t get on then the extra training requirements will annoy you.

 

[gallopingby]

Go see him but prepared to come home without having spent too much money, they might just have something else hanging round). Great they’re honest and either you’ll both get on but if there are any doubts remember to walk away thinking what’s for you won’t go by. It may be that he needs more time and if the sellers are prepared to work with you that would be great but ….do you really need a horse that isn’t going to be ready to have fun on, that may be tricky for other people to manage when you’re away? You’ll be building contacts by going to see him and that’s definitely a good thing.

 

[Peglo]

I think you’re so tuned into your horses you’ll be fully capable to bring him on and give him confidence in himself. You’re very patient and thoughtful in your approach with your horses and if nothing else he sounds quite fun to have around.
I definitely think you need to meet him and see for yourself if you’ll have that connection though.

 

[Michen]

Go see him but prepared to come home without having spent too much money, they might just have something else hanging round). Great they’re honest and either you’ll both get on but if there are any doubts remember to walk away thinking what’s for you won’t go by. It may be that he needs more time and if the sellers are prepared to work with you that would be great but ….do you really need a horse that isn’t going to be ready to have fun on, that may be tricky for other people to manage when you’re away? You’ll be building contacts by going to see him and that’s definitely a good thing.

Yeah that's a good point! I don't think he'd be tricky for people to manage, he's apparently very friendly and personable and looks like he's worn a rug etc. But I imagine he's the type where a move will upset him a lot, like Bear when he came from Ireland. Not like Bog who arrived with a whole lot of ego. Though once he knew we were good people he was never bothered about being taken all over on various holidays etc.

In terms of a horse re having fun, IDK, I keep circling back to the not wanting to spend mega money on a made horse because.. I just don't. I want to be semi responsible for once and 20-30k is the max (which IS mega money but not for the USA) I'm willing to spend on a horse. Yes I could get a nice trail QH for that but, I know I'd be bored. And I kind of like the idea of having a youngster to play with over winter where I don't care about not having an indoor arena etc because it's all very slow and getting to know eachother anyway.

But with anything there's so many variables and as I learned last week, no point getting your hopes up even if you do really like something as it might not vet!

 

[splashgirl45]

I’ve only had one really tricky horse and she scared me quite a bit and I had always been someone who would get on anything. For me, I think it was an age thing as I got her when I was 55 and going through the menopause. In hindsight I shouldn’t have bought her and would have had more fun with something more straightforward, but like you, I might have been bored. I don’t know how old you are but maybe keep that in mind. The Morgan sounds like something I would have happily bought in my twenties or thirty’s when I was more athletic and confident.. you have had way more experience with challenging horses than I have so please ignore if I’m talking rubbish

 

[2ndtimearound]

Given you're so close next week, it definitely sounds like a no-brainer to go and see him. And even if you decide after meeting him that he's not for you, it would hopefully give you an idea if you would like a morgan, if not necessarily this morgan. So it could help your search for a horse anyway to narrow things down.

 

[druid]

Go look. Bog isn't bold about everything, I refer you to pig-gate I think you'll know quickly if you click with the Morgan or not.

 

[Michen]

Go look. Bog isn't bold about everything, I refer you to pig-gate I think you'll know quickly if you click with the Morgan or not.

I had almost forgotten about that . That really was horrific! Meanwhile the sensitive little Arab next to him who also came from the same show barn never really batted an eyelid.

I agree definitely worth a look especially when it ties in rather nicely with being in the PNW and closer.

 

[southerncomfort]

Go and have a look. The seller sounds really genuine and you are clearly interested so see what your gut tells you when you meet him.

Agree. The seller has been very honest and it doesn't sound like you heard anything that really put you off, while also recognising that he is a big project and will be a lot of work.

He may well flourish in a one to one home. Some babies just are more reactive than others and need a bit more hand holding.

You've got a good eye for a horse and it's potential, so definitely worth a look.

 

[Trouper]

For my two penny worth:

Just look back on what you have done with Bear and Bog - I just don't see how you could doubt yourself in your abilities to make something of this guy . I also like the sound of this seller. I am sure once you start comparing notes with her about Bog she will realise that you are more than capable of giving this guy the best home.​

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Do you really want something "ready made"? I can't imagine anything better than taking on a youngster, building that special relationship with them and becoming a formidable team in the future. I know Bog has challenged you to hell and back but some sort of a challenge makes the rewards even sweeter and the bond even closer. Think Bog!!​

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I agree you won't know until you see this chap but I always think you can sum up a horse's character quite easily once you have looked into his eyes and seen the way he reacts to you. The vetting is, of course, another matter.​

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If possible, just go with an open mind and the "What will be, will be" philosophy.​

Good luck!!!

 

[Esmae]

Sigh. I know. But he's a funny one, I mean how do you compare. This morgan apparently loves playing with those big yoga ball things. When I put Boggle in an arena with one he absolutely lost his mind and wouldn't go anywhere near it for 30 minutes. Then when he did, he tried to attack it. Lol.

And whilst Bog is bold and everything he is also in his own way very sensitive. I think most horses with that bit of special in them is going to be a bit quirky.

You don't compare. Bog is Bog and this one is his own self. He sounds pretty much like every baby I have ever had dealings with and they all turned out okay. Go see and if you like him then fine if you don't you look again.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I have to say, I don’t think there are many horses as naturally bold as Bog so if you hold out for one of them you may be waiting a while!

Go see the pony!

I'd just add both Amber and Lottie are extremely bold without being nutty. They are out there! I like a bold horse and when viewing horses I massively value curiosity which is a great antidote to fear/wariness. Better safe than sorry horses are not for me - whrereas the Morgan's tendency to spook a short way, turn and look sounds promising! And I like intelligence which aids with boldness as curious and intelligent horses can read questions, so therefore feel confident answering them.

I agree go see the pony and I am sure you can make a decision then. Good luck!

 

[I'm Dun]

Go and look. If he gives you the feel your looking for then it will be worth the work. If he doesn't then he won't be and you abbe your answer.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I don't doubt your abilities for one moment, but do you really need a horse right now where the seller is telling you it's one step forward for five steps back, or do you need something that's ready to link arms with you and conquer the world and have some fun with smiles on your faces? He just doesn't sound like he's going to be that from what you have written. He's not lit a fire under your belly, and he wouldn't me either, so I think keep looking personally

 

[Parrotperson]

To me he just sounds like a baby horse!!

And you’re experienced enough to sort it out and go plenty on the ground. And remember he’ll mature.

So go see with an open mind. At least he’s in the same continent!! Good luck.

 

[Annagain]

I think it's easy to look at how Bog is now and forget that it wasn't always plain sailing and that you weren't keen when he first arrived and thought you could always sell him on. (That only lasted a few days at most, I think?) You helped to make him the horse he is today.