Bramham horse trials accident

[Elf On A Shelf]

Maybe they needed to get it to a good vet facility and x rays before making a final decision. I have seen a very bad tendon injury and thought it was a broken leg - the horse lived on for many years.

There is quite a huge difference between a bad tendon injury and a catastrophic bone injury. A soft tissue injury the fetlock would drop to the floor and the hooves movement would be sloppy because of the lack of support but the leg would not be able to swing in circles. I took a horse home from work with a 100% rupture to his SDFT knowing full well I could put him down 6 months later. But he turned into the soundest horse I ever had once over the injury.

A catastrophic broken bone would result in the leg literally hanging, swinging in the breeze. A broken bone that could potentially be fixed the limb would not swing but the horse would be non-weight bearing lame. These ones you splint and bandage up, drug up the horse then hop them into the ambulance for xrays back in the stable yard.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

It's not just some riders that only ever ride on a surface, but their horses too. People only want to ride on a surface but it does nothing to prepare horse or rider for the reality of riding on grass.

Hunting truly taught horses to go all day, on any terrain and to cope. Whether going through plough or a strong trot or even canter down the road. My old vet said that more injuries are caused to horses that only ever see an arena!

I remember part of the fittening process for hunters was lots of steady trotting on roads. These days you can suggest trotting on roads and its met by looks of horror!

 

[Fieldlife]

It's not just some riders that only ever ride on a surface, but their horses too. People only want to ride on a surface but it does nothing to prepare horse or rider for the reality of riding on grass.

Hunting truly taught horses to go all day, on any terrain and to cope. Whether going through plough or a strong trot or even canter down the road. My old vet said that more injuries are caused to horses that only ever see an arena!

I remember part of the fittening process for hunters was lots of steady trotting on roads. These days you can suggest trotting on roads and its met by looks of horror!

Agree training on a wide range of terrain and surfaces is best way to stay sound.

Surely no one would predominantly train a high level event horse on an artificial surface?

 

[ponynutz]

Heard there were quite a few problems.
Hope the majority are okay and thoughts go out to those that aren't.

 

[neddy man]

The fence results show the 3 most faulted fences were number 15 (10) at the end of the long parkland run before dropping down through the wood back towards the arenas, fence number 18 (9) the 2nd water complex below the arenas and fence number 11 (7) the 1st water complex. The most rider/horse falls were at fence number 7. Obtained from Bramham website " cross country fence analysis " there was a fair mix throughout the course and only shows 1 horse fell the Frech one at fence 2 and 11 rider falls in total (4@ number 7)

 

[BBP]

I would 100% say that if the horse had an obvious leg break it would not have been loaded in to that ambulance alive. I was an official (lowly crossing steward) at burghley the year the lovely South African horse broke his leg. He was galloping up the hill away from the dairy mound in the direction of the Cottesmore leap, heading towards my crossing on the long gallop and his leg broke. I had to grab his reins and help the rider bring him to a stop, and I continued to hold him as we cut his tack off him (taped on) so he could breathe better and waited for help (we were at a point with no radio, no crowd and no line of sight to other officials so my fellow steward had to run to the next fence to get the French judge to radio a vet) then as I passed him to the other officials I held the screens from the inside. He was put to sleep by injection and was taken away in a normal looking horse ambulance with a winch. It felt like an eternity but there was no question of them loading the horse up.

 

[scruffyponies]

It's not just some riders that only ever ride on a surface, but their horses too. People only want to ride on a surface but it does nothing to prepare horse or rider for the reality of riding on grass.

Hunting truly taught horses to go all day, on any terrain and to cope. Whether going through plough or a strong trot or even canter down the road. My old vet said that more injuries are caused to horses that only ever see an arena!

I remember part of the fittening process for hunters was lots of steady trotting on roads. These days you can suggest trotting on roads and its met by looks of horror!

Ours are regularly trotted and cantered for miles on roads and never have a day lame. They have feet like iron too.
I totally agree with your vet. Soft surfaces and tight circles lame horses.

 

[Patterdale]

Agree training on a wide range of terrain and surfaces is best way to stay sound.

Surely no one would predominantly train a high level event horse on an artificial surface?

Hundreds do. With a bit of ‘hacking’ down lanes and bridleways, or a special trip to ‘train’ on grass for half an hour. With studs in.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

When I ran my exracehorse show a few years ago - on grass - the amount of people that asked if it could be switched to the surfaced arenas was unreal! Oh rain is due - can we go indoors? My horse hasn't been on grass since he last raced - can we go indoors? My horse hasnt been ridden in company outside of a school - can we go indoors? I can't run in grass - can we go indoors?

People are too afraid of grass and not having 4 solid walls around them these days. It's getting ridiculous!

 

[palo1]

There is quite a huge difference between a bad tendon injury and a catastrophic bone injury. A soft tissue injury the fetlock would drop to the floor and the hooves movement would be sloppy because of the lack of support but the leg would not be able to swing in circles. I took a horse home from work with a 100% rupture to his SDFT knowing full well I could put him down 6 months later. But he turned into the soundest horse I ever had once over the injury.

A catastrophic broken bone would result in the leg literally hanging, swinging in the breeze. A broken bone that could potentially be fixed the limb would not swing but the horse would be non-weight bearing lame. These ones you splint and bandage up, drug up the horse then hop them into the ambulance for xrays back in the stable yard.

I don't know how to put this image behind a banner - apologies. This is what a horse with 2 broken legs at an endurance race looked like. It took ages to get vet support to him to put him down and this was the image that made me walk completely away from endurance. I know it's not like that here but this was at the 'top' level. I don't want to derail the thread either but I felt that this is relevant. It helps to demonstrate why asking too much of horses in any sport is unacceptable - whether that is due to too big an ask, too much for the preparation, soundness or appropriacy of the combination involved. Sorry, this is a very upsetting image.

Don't scroll down to the image if you don't want to see horrible horse injury

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[Content edited by admin.]

 

[stangs]

@palo1, you can put the image behind a banner with [ SPOILER ]the image here[ / SPOILER ]. Just don't use the spaces I added in the square brackets.

 

[palo1]

@palo1, you can put the image behind a banner with [ SPOILER ]the image here[ / SPOILER ]. Just don't use the spaces I added in the square brackets.

Just tried that - used Insert spoiler but it doesn't appear to have done anything - sorry, I know it is an awful image - perhaps I should just delete it?

 

[bouncing_ball]

Hundreds do. With a bit of ‘hacking’ down lanes and bridleways, or a special trip to ‘train’ on grass for half an hour. With studs in.

At 3 star / 4 star? Really?

 

[bouncing_ball]

When I ran my exracehorse show a few years ago - on grass - the amount of people that asked if it could be switched to the surfaced arenas was unreal! Oh rain is due - can we go indoors? My horse hasn't been on grass since he last raced - can we go indoors? My horse hasnt been ridden in company outside of a school - can we go indoors? I can't run in grass - can we go indoors?

People are too afraid of grass and not having 4 solid walls around them these days. It's getting ridiculous!

I don’t show, but I am not a huge fan of dressage competing on grass.

I do ride on a range of surfaces, including grass, grass gallops etc.

BUT I don’t like competing on grass – in summer it seems to be either rock solid or slippery.

Just not my idea of fun. Not that I like deep summer arenas that can abound if it doesn’t rain.

I fully support working on a huge range of ground / gradient / schooling in field etc.

But I don’t think all weather and conditions favour dressage on grass.

It does also depend on the horse, some have good four wheel drive and cope on any surface. Some are not so sure footed, even with lots of exposure to different ground.

Also some dressage arenas are in big grass spaces and dont have any walls either e.g. Hickstead dressage warm up arenas.

 

[Patterdale]

At 3 star / 4 star? Really?

Yes, really. With training up the gallops (all weather) and xc schooling on grass by default.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Ours are regularly trotted and cantered for miles on roads and never have a day lame. They have feet like iron too.
I totally agree with your vet. Soft surfaces and tight circles lame horses.

I wonder if this is why dressage causes a lot of lameness in horses? Lots of work on tight circles on soft surfaces.

 

[spacefaer]

Yes, really. With training up the gallops (all weather) and xc schooling on grass by default.

I would say the higher the level of competition, the less time the horse spends working on grass

 

[spacefaer]

I wonder if this is why dressage causes a lot of lameness in horses? Lots of work on tight circles on soft surfaces.

Absolutely. We bought a lovely big irish draught who had spent a summer working in a 20x40 arena - he was unlevel right hind.
He never went in an arena with us and subsequently hunted 9 seasons with us with never a lame step. He's still sound and in a hacking home aged 23 - still no arena!

 

[Birker2020]

Sorry if this has already been posted but here is a huge list of fatalities of both horse and riders https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2012/04/02/eventing-safety/

I had not idea there has been that many

 

[spacefaer]

Back in the 90s, there was a spate of rider deaths, which is when people started to look at frangible pins etc. It's obviously not possible to make all xc fences "knock down" but in adding that safety element, are riders riding fences a little more (over) confident than they used to? A lack of respect?
I think there's definitely a lack of mileage/experience gained in the last 2 years, both in horse and riders. Horses are 2 years older without 2 years extra experience. Are riders trying to "jump start" the horses' careers by running them in events they ought to be ready for, because of their age, rather than their experience?

 

[Birker2020]

I wonder if this is why dressage causes a lot of lameness in horses? Lots of work on tight circles on soft surfaces.

Yep the vet that vetted my current horse said when he rang me to confirm he's pass the vetting "I'm strongly advising you, don't ride him more than twice a week on a surface, I say that to all my clients not just you. I see so many more injuries in the winter than the summer because people can't hack anymore due to the dark nights so everyone heads for the menage and I see more tendon injuries than at any other time of year"

 

[teapot]

Sorry if this has already been posted but here is a huge list of fatalities of both horse and riders https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2012/04/02/eventing-safety/

I had not idea there has been that many

That really needs to be broken down by type of injury as Jetset, Arctic Soul, and Ms Poppins could have all happened at home/in the field etc.

Wild Lone is an interesting one because he actually broke his neck after finishing his WEG round.

 

[Birker2020]

That really needs to be broken down by type of injury as Jetset, Arctic Soul, and Ms Poppins could have all happened at home/in the field etc.

I don't understand your point. They all happened on XC courses in the UK and overseas. It tells how the accident happened as well as how the horse injured itself and when/where it was euthanised, i.e. on course or at a vet hospital afterwards.

Agree its not as comprehensive as Racehorse Death watch https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/ but as far as I know its the only one I can see that has eventing deaths.

 

[milliepops]

That really needs to be broken down by type of injury as Jetset, Arctic Soul, and Ms Poppins could have all happened at home/in the field etc.

Wild Lone is an interesting one because he actually broke his neck after finishing his WEG round.

and competition type. just scrolling through the rider list, I noticed one that was killed near to where i live which was an unaff show. and another that was an indoor competition.
obviously does not take away from the losses but it's not quite what it appears at first glance.

 

[teapot]

I don't understand your point. They all happened on XC courses in the UK and overseas. It tells how the accident happened as well as how the horse injured itself and when/where it was euthanised, i.e. on course or at a vet hospital afterwards.

Agree its not as comprehensive as Racehorse Death watch https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/ but as far as I know its the only one I can see that has eventing deaths.

My point is that you cannot compare a horse doing a leg on the flat between fences (which can happen anywhere) or the direct result of a fall over a fence. Hence the need to be broken down.

Statistics can be made to look far worse than they actually are…

 

[Fieldlife]

Yep the vet that vetted my current horse said when he rang me to confirm he's pass the vetting "I'm strongly advising you, don't ride him more than twice a week on a surface, I say that to all my clients not just you. I see so many more injuries in the winter than the summer because people can't hack anymore due to the dark nights so everyone heads for the menage and I see more tendon injuries than at any other time of year"

My vet says similar. Horses are meant to move over range of terrain mostly in straight ish lines!

 

[Birker2020]

My vet says similar. Horses are meant to move over range of terrain mostly in straight ish lines!

I wonder how the horse world could improvise? Maybe going back to showjumping and dresage on grass would be the way to go. Back in the 80's and 90's nearly all shows were outdoors on grass and I don't remember horses having the number of lameness related injuries then. Whether we've moved on more with research and diagnostic/horse welfare and simply know more or whether it is wholly due to surfaces who knows? Interesting food for thought though.

I know with my own horses injuries both my vet and physio were keen to get Bailey onto different types of surface during my rehab plans and same with Lari.

 

[AmyMay]

Just tried that - used Insert spoiler but it doesn't appear to have done anything - sorry, I know it is an awful image - perhaps I should just delete it?

Yep, awful. Thankfully not in this country - but I remember the outcry at the time. The UAE endurance horses are devastatingly treated.

 

[Pebble101]

My friend lost three horses in field accidents - all different fields. One broke it's neck, one broke its leg (presumed kicked) and the other broke its leg when in the field on its own. They are such fragile creatures at times.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Palo, I've reported the image of the endurance horse with the broken leg, I couldn't help but see it as I scrolled past your post despite your warning . I know full well that these things happen, and I've seen that image before, but now I will be 'seeing' that image again for a long while.

For future ref, to put something behind a spoiler, go
(SPOILER)content(/SPOILER) but using square brackets [ ] instead of curved brackets ( )

Thus

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