Bramham horse trials accident

[palo1]

I don't know how to put this image behind a banner - apologies. This is what a horse with 2 broken legs at an endurance race looked like. It took ages to get vet support to him to put him down and this was the image that made me walk completely away from endurance. I know it's not like that here but this was at the 'top' level. I don't want to derail the thread either but I felt that this is relevant. It helps to demonstrate why asking too much of horses in any sport is unacceptable - whether that is due to too big an ask, too much for the preparation, soundness or appropriacy of the combination involved. Sorry, this is a very upsetting image.

Don't scroll down to the image if you don't want to see horrible horse injury

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Thankyou for providing the spoiler/banner @admin.

 

[ElectricChampagne]

There are a few mentions of protecting children from distressing scenes on the thread. I personally think that a lot of the issue with eventing starts with 'children' being at the front, centre and back of so many decisions.
I have a particular criticism of Pony Eventing. Children are plopped onto made ponies because parents have deep pockets and loud voices. Pony eventing started in Ireland just over 30 years ago. Is it the same in UK?
These children then moved onto horses, and guess what, it ain't so easy anymore. Real skill and hours in the saddle are needed to make a horse, never mind what it takes to get to the higher levels. But they are used to their voices being heard and are very demanding. So changes are made to format etc. Warmbloods became a high fashion item in eventing. The Germans got good scores. Things started to change, slowly but surely.
We arrive where we are today, very technical tracks, horses being checked left right and centre. Not really being confident of what is being asked of them, but ridden hard and ugly, so they concede and keep trying to please the rider.

This leads into another issue is the whisper criticism...Anyone who goes on their 5th or 6th spin at 90cm track is poo pooed for not racing up the levels when in fact they are establishing the basics. Again, the most common voice behind this criticism is the non riding parent, 'oh is xxxx still only at 90cm?'.
I am not super knowledgeable or a great rider, but you just cannot skip on the basics and establishing that horse knows what is expected of it BEFORE you take it a higher fence or a more difficult question to understand. I have learnt the hard way.

Ego is really behind these issues and no one wants make anyone accountable. Thank you, rant over.

I 100% agree with this and see it happening on my own yard. Young riders coming off the readymade pony onto a much bigger, ex professional's horse and think they're infallible. But don't have the interest in putting in the work, instead having the social life.
It's like watching a car crash. I honestly hope nobody gets injured.

 

[palo1]

Palo, I've reported the image of the endurance horse with the broken leg, I couldn't help but see it as I scrolled past your post despite your warning . I know full well that these things happen, and I've seen that image before, but now I will be 'seeing' that image again for a long while.

For future ref, to put something behind a spoiler, go
(SPOILER)content(/SPOILER) but using square brackets [ ] instead of curved brackets ( )

Thus

Spoiler

content

Thank you for reporting the image @Tiddlypom. I did try to use the spoiler but it just didn't work for some reason. I am sorry you saw the image without wanting to as it is horrific. I possibly should have deleted it but in context with the thread being about horse injuries and death in sport it seemed relevant. I also feel really strongly that although deaths in other sports are not so much in the public eye as eventing or racing, it is important for people to know that asking too much is endemic in horse sport; probably nowhere more than in international Endurance. I still feel sick and enraged thinking about that particular incident but the endurance caravan rolls on. The subject of horse fatalities, whether in eventing or other sports is really important in terms of any future social licence and I don't think it is bad to remind people of the actuality of that. It does not have so much impact when you post pictures of obese horses - even though that too is a form of 'asking too much'. Again, I am sorry that you had to see such a distressing image; I do feel very conflicted about posting it.

 

[palo1]

Yep, awful. Thankfully not in this country - but I remember the outcry at the time. The UAE endurance horses are devastatingly treated.

Yes they are but there have been plenty of UK riders happy to compete in endurance in the UAE. Not all the stables are the same of course but even so, it is hard to accept that we have elite riders happy to participate...

 

[AmyMay]

Yes they are but there have been plenty of UK riders happy to compete in endurance in the UAE. Not all the stables are the same of course but even so, it is hard to accept that we have elite riders happy to participate...

Completely agree

 

[Annagain]

I was at the first Express Eventing competition where Call Again Cavalier broke a leg. It was horrible as an audience stuck up in the stands because unlike a normal xc where only part of the spectators are at any one fence, literally everyone is there watching it all happen. I think Mary said he was pts in the stabling area.

I was there too and they had failed to consider that people in the stands would be high enough to able to see over the screens. They had a gazebo to go overhead but there was enough of a gap between the gazebo and the screen that we could still see everything. I think that's why they took him out of the arena in the ambulance. Seeing Mary's reaction was enough to know there was only one outcome. It was awful and I decided there and then I never wanted to watch XC live again.

 

[MagicMelon]

Yes they are but there have been plenty of UK riders happy to compete in endurance in the UAE. Not all the stables are the same of course but even so, it is hard to accept that we have elite riders happy to participate...

Ive ridden in in the UAE once, went to a fancy yard with rows of ex-endurance horses. Given their due, they did ask us all our experience and made us ride in an enclosed area all paces before they would agree we were competent enough to go out on a hack around the sand dunes. Honestly, it was not like any hack Ive ever done or endurance ride (albeit Ive only ever done pleasure). For an hour we trotted and cantered the entire way on often deep sand. The horses were extremely fit but they were still expected to go fast through often deep sand. I was absolutely exhuasted by the end and literally couldnt walk for the next 2 days. The horses seemed well cared for but it gave me a shock that IMO over there, they just ride horses very hard... would I do it again, no.

 

[Birker2020]

My friend lost three horses in field accidents - all different fields. One broke it's neck, one broke its leg (presumed kicked) and the other broke its leg when in the field on its own. They are such fragile creatures at times.

Yes I lost one to a broken leg and one to a heart attack both in the field. I agree horses do, quite frequently too.

I quickly looked at the link I attached on reply 109, opened up three of the horses names at random, saw they were all eventing injuries from falls at fences and posted. I didn't realise there were others that were field accidents or I'd not have posted it.

 

[Velcrobum]

I volunteer at a lot of events and the standard of riding is in some instances is utterly appalling. There really is too much "got all the gear no idea" we had this conversation with the Health and Safety officer who said the number of riders who have watches on them is rapidly going up. Some dressage judges are rather than verbally asking for a rider to be watched are now writing "Watch this rider" on the sheets.

At a recent competition a rider managed to have a rotational fall over a very simple fence in a BE 80. I do wonder if riders should have to undergo some sort of mandatory official assessment before being allowed to enter. This would not of course stop them going to Unaffiliated competitions.

 

[Birker2020]

Palo, I've reported the image of the endurance horse with the broken leg, I couldn't help but see it as I scrolled past your post despite your warning . I know full well that these things happen, and I've seen that image before, but now I will be 'seeing' that image again for a long while.

For future ref, to put something behind a spoiler, go
(SPOILER)content(/SPOILER) but using square brackets [ ] instead of curved brackets ( )

Thus

Spoiler

content

Don't open the link to HDW that I posted earlier then whatever you do.
I get what you mean, I saw a bad photo on post on FB once about the dog meat trade and I've never forgotten it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Yes they are but there have been plenty of UK riders happy to compete in endurance in the UAE. Not all the stables are the same of course but even so, it is hard to accept that we have elite riders happy to participate...

I fully agree that top level endurance stinks, but it is a whole different level of horse abuse to what happens in eventing. It really needs its own thread.

At a recent competition a rider managed to have a rotational fall over a very simple fence in a BE 80. I do wonder if riders should have to undergo some sort of mandatory official assessment before being allowed to enter. This would not of course stop them going to Unaffiliated competitions.

Whilst I would not be adverse to some sort of official assessment before a rider was permitted to compete, the height of the fence is not necessarily the issue. As I posted on another recent thread asking about cavaletti, my then Pony Club DC had a bad rotational fall with a young horse over a cavaletti, resulting in her getting broken bones. She was an experienced event rider.

 

[palo1]

I fully agree that top level endurance stinks, but it is a whole different level of horse abuse to what happens in eventing. It really needs its own thread.

I agree - eventing generally is far better in terms of accountability and safety and I don't want to derail this with an endurance discussion but it was the issue of asking too much that I kind of wanted to highlight. Extreme horse sports probably do ask too much to be palatable for many people and eventing, endurance, racing and polo amongst other sports (barrel racing too though not widely in the UK?) would be classified as extreme. The chances of horses dying in competition in dressage, showjumping or TREC for example are much lower and I think those risks are probably more acceptable.

 

[Annagain]

Wasn't there one horse at Badminton (or maybe Burghley?) who died after hitting and breaking a flag pole which he then impaled himself on? That has to be one of freakiest accidents out there. It just goes to show no matter how safe you try to make anything, there's always a risk involved.

 

[Old school]

Whilst I would not be adverse to some sort of official assessment before a rider was permitted to compete, the height of the fence is not necessarily the issue. As I posted on another recent thread asking about cavaletti, my then Pony Club DC had a bad rotational fall with a young horse over a cavaletti, resulting in her getting broken bones. She was an experienced event rider.

I have been thinking about it. In lots of professions there is continuous education required. I wonder if every three years there was a mandatory training session before being allowed to compete. If this was for everyone, no circumventing the rule, would it provide a window of opportunity to touch base with all affiliated riders. Not much you can do about folks that choose to stay outside of this.

 

[ester]

It was at the vicarage vee and the reason they don’t use wooden flags anymore

 

[milliepops]

Wasn't there one horse at Badminton (or maybe Burghley?) who died after hitting and breaking a flag pole which he then impaled himself on? That has to be one of freakiest accidents out there. It just goes to show no matter how safe you try to make anything, there's always a risk involved.

yes. it was a French horse at Badminton. IIRC they altered the spec of the flags used after that.

 

[Honey08]

It’s not that much of a freak accident if you think they used a thin piece of wood that could easily snap..

Back in the day they used to use garden canes for gymkhana bending poles. A friend’s pony impailed itself on one when it blew down in the wind. Nowadays they’re much sturdier.

 

[Honey08]

I fully agree that top level endurance stinks, but it is a whole different level of horse abuse to what happens in eventing. It really needs its own thread.

Whilst I would not be adverse to some sort of official assessment before a rider was permitted to compete, the height of the fence is not necessarily the issue. As I posted on another recent thread asking about cavaletti, my then Pony Club DC had a bad rotational fall with a young horse over a cavaletti, resulting in her getting broken bones. She was an experienced event rider.

When I evented in Italy in the 1990s you had to do a test before you could compete. We were allowed to compete at intermediate (which I thought was more like BE novice) because we had our BHSAI.

It wouldn’t work here. People would be affronted. Everyone thinks they are so much better than they are nowadays.

 

[Annagain]

It’s not that much of a freak accident if you think they used a thin piece of wood that could easily snap..

Back in the day they used to use garden canes for gymkhana bending poles. A friend’s pony impailed itself on one when it blew down in the wind. Nowadays they’re much sturdier.

Well no, but even if it could easily snap, you would think the momentum of the horse would push the pole away from the horse. The combination of factors that would allow it to snap at the exact height that would make it a problem and land in such a way that you get the perfect angle between horse and ground that it could penetrate the horse's skin and major organs is probably not one that would happen very frequently. There were undoubtedly broken flags before but that type of accident can't have happened before or they'd have changed the flag design sooner.

 

[AmyMay]

Deleted

 

[cauda equina]

Wasn't there one horse at Badminton (or maybe Burghley?) who died after hitting and breaking a flag pole which he then impaled himself on? That has to be one of freakiest accidents out there. It just goes to show no matter how safe you try to make anything, there's always a risk involved.

Icare D'Auzay, another lovely chestnut

 

[ester]

Horses have form for impaling themselves.

 

[Rowreach]

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/eventing/new-safety-flags-for-cross-country-fences-134243

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Horses have form for impaling themselves.

Horses find any way to injure themselves and if there is nothing close to hand they use their own feet. The only animal worse for finding something to kill themselves with are sheep!

 

[ester]

I was more surprised that by 2007 there hadn’t already been an incident that demonstrated that wooden stakes next to horse jumps might not be the best option.

 

[Orangehorse]

Looking down that list of riders and horses fatalities, I am more surprised by the number of riders than the horses. Considering how many horses compete and how many rounds are jumped, per day of competition the number of fatal accidents to horses doesn't look that high. Artic Soul just died, he didn't have an accident.

 

[PapaverFollis]

After some recent pothole filling on the roads round here there were two broken shovels left sticking in the verges on my hacking routes. They have been moved now but I almost drove out and did it myself because since was convinced my horses were going to somehow impale themselves on them at a walk or trot... this is why I don't ride cross country!

Going back to different surfaces etc, my physio says she sometimes has to persuade people to put even a single step somewhere on the yard that the horses have to walk over because they have these perfectly smooth environments which doesn't actually do the horse any favours. She likes my set up with all its uneven surfaces even though I dislike how untidy it makes everything look. ? it does help though, I'm sure.

Not that mine are ever going to be asked to go to any kind of competitive extreme. Or even be roused out of a steady trot particularly often. ?

 

[spacefaer]

I was more surprised that by 2007 there hadn’t already been an incident that demonstrated that wooden stakes next to horse jumps might not be the best option.

Off the top of my head, I'm just wondering when the increase in skinnies started....
I evented seriously in the 90s in the main, and there certainly weren't nearly so many skinny fences and accuracy questions

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Artic Soul just died, he didn't have an accident.

As do many racehorses. And yet we still get accused of galloping them to death ?

There was a weird one at Cartmel the other week. Horse wouldn't settle at the start, took a keen hold, blew himself up so pulled up not even halfway through the race. Jockey came back on a loose rein, horse was lead back to the stables with the rest of the horses after the race. Washed down, walked for 5min then the vet checked him as the trainer wasn't happy with how he ran, he was normally very good to ride and deal with so wasn't his usual self. Heart checked out fine, trotted up fine, his exuberance was put down to the atmosphere (if you have ever been to Cartmel it's something else!) So he carried on walking round. 2mins later he threw himself up and over and was dead before he hit the floor. Utterly bizarre as the vet picked up nothing wrong with his heart less than 5mins before.

 

[Velcrobum]

Artic Soul just died, he didn't have an accident.

As did Lucinda Green's Wide Awake and another horse of hers some years later Up River. Harry Meade's Wild Lone also had a heart attack. One dropped dead at Aston le Walls BE about 5 years ago, sadly it happens. I have a field ornament (TB) with a grade 5 Aortic valve murmur who regularly hoons at speed around the paddock we fully expect to find him dead one day but while he is happy he has his place in the field.