Debate for the rights and wrongs of racing

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Just read on a racing forum (not sure how true) Éclair Surf trainer raised doubts over his jumping earlier in the season, so he didn't have to run, but they went for it

So why run him? Why not wait another season and take the time to improve the jumping? Doesn't look great, it gives the impression of greedy owners not considering if the horse is suitable for the race...

Likewise running the 13 year old Blaklion in it

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

From Matty Wilkinson - friend and photographer to all stable staff.

While as every year the dust is starting to settle now on the Grand National meeting. Just a few things to note .

While people in racing wake up very early to tend to their horses . The haters are still in bed.

While your riding out the first lot, the haters are pressing the snooze button to have more time in bed

While your feeding your horses , mucking out the stables etc , the haters are on social media claiming to care,

While your all posting photos on how proud you are of your racehorses , the haters are posting images of racehorses that disrespects them.

People in racing finish work but then go and tend to your own horses. The haters are wondering what to do later in the day.

People in racing do this all year. The haters only do it for few days of the year .

People in racing will do other equine events with their ex racehorses. The haters who say racing is cruel , don’t say anything about other equine activities or the thousands of abandoned horses.

When is all said and done who is more committed to the welfare of racehorses. The people in racing with their dedication to their horses all year or the people who are committed to one day a year to voice their anger.

I think I know the answer !!

 

[TPO]

?

Sure thing Matty

 

[Sandstone1]

From Matty Wilkinson - friend and photographer to all stable staff.

While as every year the dust is starting to settle now on the Grand National meeting. Just a few things to note .

While people in racing wake up very early to tend to their horses . The haters are still in bed.

While your riding out the first lot, the haters are pressing the snooze button to have more time in bed

While your feeding your horses , mucking out the stables etc , the haters are on social media claiming to care,

While your all posting photos on how proud you are of your racehorses , the haters are posting images of racehorses that disrespects them.

People in racing finish work but then go and tend to your own horses. The haters are wondering what to do later in the day.

People in racing do this all year. The haters only do it for few days of the year .

People in racing will do other equine events with their ex racehorses. The haters who say racing is cruel , don’t say anything about other equine activities or the thousands of abandoned horses.

When is all said and done who is more committed to the welfare of racehorses. The people in racing with their dedication to their horses all year or the people who are committed to one day a year to voice their anger.

I think I know the answer !!

Its really not that simple tho is is? I agree racehorses in general are well looked after while in training but is that just because owners are protecting their investment?
Its the wastage of horses both in the ones that do not make it either from being not good enough or fast enough or brave enough or sound enough.
What about the injured ones? It would be nice to think that all the above go on to nice kind loving homes where they live out the rest of their years in comfort.
Maybe thats true for some but certainly not for all.
Thats not to mention the deaths that happen as direct result of racing. The fatal injuries and accidents.
I get that a lot of people like yourself care deeply about the horses but that does not mean that racing in general has not got big faults and like other horse sports its not wrong that people ask questions.

 

[stangs]

While your all posting photos on how proud you are of your racehorses , the haters are posting images of racehorses that disrespects them.

I really don’t get this. What pictures? How is it ‘disrespectful’ to a horse to post a picture of it where it’s unhappy?

While people in racing wake up very early to tend to their horses . The haters are still in bed.

You heard it here first folks. Us ‘haters’ need to start breaking into race yards to feed their horses, or else our criticisms aren’t valid.

 

[Fred66]

Much effort has been made to recognise the fact that horse racing has a high number of “discards” and to mitigate. Many racehorses that either don’t make the grade or are retired at the end of their career are rehomed . Most shows have classes for these now, and many more people get involved in it. Some are just retired to grass and yes some are put down normally either because it is unable to be rehomed or because it’s injured and rehabilitation is not possible, too prolonged and or too costly
In an ideal world they’d all live happily ever after but we don’t live in an ideal world and as long as they are treated humanely then I think that’s all anyone could ask

 

[stangs]

Anyway, Matty’s spot on. I used his template for another business that also receives criticism, if that’s alright.


While kidnappers wake up very early to tend to their victims, the victim’s family are still in bed.

While you’re killing someone, their family are pressing the snooze button to have more time in bed

While you’re feeding your victims , chopping up bodies etc , the haters are on social media claiming to care,

While you’re all posting photos of the dead bodies , the haters are posting images of your victims that disrespects them.

People in murdering finish work but then go and kill more people. The haters are wondering what to do later in the day.

People in kidnapping do this all year. The haters only draw awareness to all these kidnappings for few days of the year .

When is all said and done who is more committed to the welfare of the victims. The people in murdering and kidnapping with their dedication to their victims all year or the people who are committed to one day a year to voice their anger that tens of people are dead or missing.

I think I know the answer !!

 

[Sandstone1]

Much effort has been made to recognise the fact that horse racing has a high number of “discards” and to mitigate. Many racehorses that either don’t make the grade or are retired at the end of their career are rehomed . Most shows have classes for these now, and many more people get involved in it. Some are just retired to grass and yes some are put down normally either because it is unable to be rehomed or because it’s injured and rehabilitation is not possible, too prolonged and or too costly
In an ideal world they’d all live happily ever after but we don’t live in an ideal world and as long as they are treated humanely then I think that’s all anyone could ask

Perhaps think about breeding less? Only breed from proven racehorses not just any TB mare that didnt make the grade herself?

 

[humblepie]

Yard where my horse is - there are retrained racehorses of all sorts and ages owned for pleasure or competing from a horse that ran once through to a Cheltenham jumps winner. All just normal horses doing normal horse things for normal people.

 

[scats]

I can’t take anyone who uses the word ‘haters’ seriously.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I think Matty's comment was more aimed at the Peta/AnimalAid lot who dont have their own animals.

 

[AmyMay]

I think Matty's comment was more aimed at the Peta/AnimalAid lot who dont have their own animals.

Well, yes.

 

[Clodagh]

I think Matty's comment was more aimed at the Peta/AnimalAid lot who dont have their own animals.

I think Matty’s post was a load of codswallop, and I’m pro racing!

 

[littleshetland]

From Matty Wilkinson - friend and photographer to all stable staff.

While as every year the dust is starting to settle now on the Grand National meeting. Just a few things to note .

While people in racing wake up very early to tend to their horses . The haters are still in bed.

While your riding out the first lot, the haters are pressing the snooze button to have more time in bed

While your feeding your horses , mucking out the stables etc , the haters are on social media claiming to care,

While your all posting photos on how proud you are of your racehorses , the haters are posting images of racehorses that disrespects them.

People in racing finish work but then go and tend to your own horses. The haters are wondering what to do later in the day.

People in racing do this all year. The haters only do it for few days of the year .

People in racing will do other equine events with their ex racehorses. The haters who say racing is cruel , don’t say anything about other equine activities or the thousands of abandoned horses.

When is all said and done who is more committed to the welfare of racehorses. The people in racing with their dedication to their horses all year or the people who are committed to one day a year to voice their anger.

I think I know the answer !!

What a load of absolute tripe.

 

[Gamebird]

Being too death adverse can also have a negative effect on horse welfare. I worry with racing that people may be discouraged from having broken down horses instantly destroyed at the scene for the better PR of "going off to horse hospital" rather than "dies in race". Also some treatments may have a reasonable to good prognosis, but they still are not happy situations to inflict on horses (I'm thinking the horses cross tied for weeks, etc). I'm not sure that things are changing in quite the right way for the right reasons, if that makes sense?

I have been a racecourse vet. I can assure you that doing anything to delay what needs to be done for any reason, let alone 'PR' does not happen. And it is an insult to suggest that vets might put PR before animal welfare. Horses are moved off track where the nature or severity of their injury is not immediately apparent, so that they can get further assessment, and so that this can be done without time pressure, in private, and with better facilities than standing in the middle of a racecourse. If there is no choice for the horse and it needs immediate PTS then this will be carried out then and there, wherever the horse happens to be at the time. PR or no PR.

 

[Sandstone1]

I think Matty's comment was more aimed at the Peta/AnimalAid lot who dont have their own animals.

That does not mean its still not codswallop and pretty insulting to anyone who does not mindlessly agree with the racing industry.
People who have their own animals and ride etc are allowed to have a opinion.

 

[RachelFerd]

I think Matty's comment was more aimed at the Peta/AnimalAid lot who dont have their own animals.

I think Matty's comments were a load of self serving nonsense. I always find with the racing lot that its easy to argue with Peta/AnimalAid types who often aren't basing their arguments in facts. But they won't engage with someone like me with 10 years of real-life industry experience and a bunch of (in my opinion) valid criticisms. Racing has to engage with the discussion and stop putting its fingers in its ears and insisting that whips are made of marshmallows.

 

[bonny]

That does not mean its still not codswallop and pretty insulting to anyone who does not mindlessly agree with the racing industry.
People who have their own animals and ride etc are allowed to have a opinion.

I think it's really aimed at the people who appear every year at grand national time, say the same thing and then disappear till this time next year

 

[Sandstone1]

I think it's really aimed at the people who appear every year at grand national time, say the same thing and then disappear till this time next year

I get that but its not just the National by any means. It just comes to the fore for the Aintree meeting because so many people who dont normally watch racing see it.

 

[sakura]

I think it's really aimed at the people who appear every year at grand national time, say the same thing and then disappear till this time next year

Because the Grand National is the biggest race of its kind and thankfully only happens once a year?

With respect, we have no idea which staff at Animal Aid actively own horses or not - and I don't think you need to own the animal itself to campaign against something that you perceive as harmful.

 

[paddi22]

Sorry but I can't roll my eyes hard enough at Mattys comments. This is a perfect example of the cognitive dissonance that goes on with racing. It's people who really do love horses, but can somehow turn a blind eye to the bad practices that are routine in their workplace. It's one thing to pat yourself on the back for keeping an animal with a nice bed, fed and groomed, or 'treated like royalty' as we are constantly told (as if no other horse owner does this as a routine thing). But then they can turn a blind eye to the skeletal issues, the ulcers they get from bad management, the way they are shod too young, broken too young etc. We get exracers in to retrain and they are physically in pieces after racing- pelvises crocked, back damage, everything out of alignment. they generally come in with terrible teeth and awful hooves. we have two years old come in that windsuck off their legs cos of the stress of their management and not mentally being able to cope with the system they were put into. we have ones that have to be pts because their spines are wrecked.

So when I read something like Mattys thing it just winds me up as its SO patronising and simplistic.
Is it only race staff that get up early? I wasn't aware.

As someone who has to deal with the discarded animals of racing, I also would wonder how being 'committed to the welfare of horses' means people (who should know better) put horses in work at such a young age where they aren't developed. Leaving young animals with SI and KS issues and thats without even starting with ulcer issues and vices from being fed and managed in such an unnatural way for their body system. doesn't sound like love to me.

 

[milliepops]

So when I read something like Mattys thing it just winds me up as its SO patronising and simplistic.
Is it only race staff that get up early? I wasn't aware.
.

good post p22.
re this bit. yes it's a sign of a pretty weak argument when you have to labour that "point".
as it happens the dressage grooms arrive before the racing staff round my way... and i am often there before either I am also the last one there after a full day of work. As though that means anything, jesus

 

[Gallop_Away]

While Matty's comment is a tad fluffy (for lack of a better word) I do understand the sentiment behind it.

It is frustrating when the same comments about racing are rolled out every year by those who know nothing about the industry "it's all about money" "no one cares about these animals", which is frankly insulting to so many people who work in the industry. That isn't aimed at anyone on here by the way, but more the keyboard warriors on social media.

That being said, like hunting, I think racing could do more to improve it's PR, it's one of the many areas the industry can improve on.

 

[tristar]

But the same could be said of horses expected to jump big show jumps or put a lot of pressure on their hocks do dressage. By that argument no horse would ever do anything other than mooch about for fear of their legs.

simply a load of shxte

you really do not know anything worth knowing about REAL dressage and showjumping

a racecourse vet once said, `all horses have legs of glass`

probably based on their experience of race jumping and accounting for the bad management they have to endure, then being carted around the country and expected to perform over unfamiliar territory

i have the greatest of admiration for tb horses, and how they survive the lives they are forced to live is a testimony to the their strength of character, courage, and endurance

but its simply not true of horses bred for other jobs

its you that needs to get out of bed earlier, to catch up with us, if you can of course!

 

[tristar]

Sorry but I can't roll my eyes hard enough at Mattys comments. This is a perfect example of the cognitive dissonance that goes on with racing. It's people who really do love horses, but can somehow turn a blind eye to the bad practices that are routine in their workplace. It's one thing to pat yourself on the back for keeping an animal with a nice bed, fed and groomed, or 'treated like royalty' as we are constantly told (as if no other horse owner does this as a routine thing). But then they can turn a blind eye to the skeletal issues, the ulcers they get from bad management, the way they are shod too young, broken too young etc. We get exracers in to retrain and they are physically in pieces after racing- pelvises crocked, back damage, everything out of alignment. they generally come in with terrible teeth and awful hooves. we have two years old come in that windsuck off their legs cos of the stress of their management and not mentally being able to cope with the system they were put into. we have ones that have to be pts because their spines are wrecked.

So when I read something like Mattys thing it just winds me up as its SO patronising and simplistic.
Is it only race staff that get up early? I wasn't aware.

As someone who has to deal with the discarded animals of racing, I also would wonder how being 'committed to the welfare of horses' means people (who should know better) put horses in work at such a young age where they aren't developed. Leaving young animals with SI and KS issues and thats without even starting with ulcer issues and vices from being fed and managed in such an unnatural way for their body system. doesn't sound like love to me.

can`t like this enough

tragic debris of human greed

racing`s horse management is below standard at lot of the time

 

[rara007]

One big pro is the money it brings to equine health research.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Gosh darnit! I've been doing it all wrong for the last 18 years! I've been caring about the horses and being paid minimum wage when I could have been having them and making wads of cash instead! Doh!

Are you with all your experience and responsibilities not being paid above the NMW rate, Elf?

 

[Getbackboys]

no one who has posted as far as i recall albeit reading the whole thread again that they are haters. everyone knows the long hours racing people work, you have to love the animals to do the job, at the end of the day it is a job which they have chosen to do, pay isnt too bad either incl other benefits, some incl accommation, other business wouldnt provide that.

i think the message those are trying to put across is the concern they have over animal welfare, maybe more needs to be broadcast about how good it is, i think there needs to be follow ups by ROA Group about those that have left racing. the public hears about some but what about the many others forgotten about, where are they?

but then doesnt all of this apply to every animal in this world, some animals suffer terribly at the hands of man, what are we doing about it, PETA and RSPCA and others too many to mention are trying to do something about it, but guaranteed there will be someone who is against those trying who are not sitting on their couch with a TV remote in hand. no one or company is perfect but as long as they are trying to make things better thats what counts

 

[Orangehorse]

They are stabled in what is essentially tenement housing there. Though most horses are bought in from Australia and the ones that are the owners have to buy a return plane ticket for when the horse retires from racing so it can go back to Australia and be turned out to find a new home.

That's nice.

 

[suebou]

I ‘think’ that horses that suffer a catastrophic injury whilst racing are pumping adrenaline and pain levels are minimal. Sure I’ve seen evidence
interestingly, this debate seems to have some ‘anti’ racers, who whilst wishing to appear caring and compassionate, are falling into the ‘ if you don’t agree with me, you are wrong and I will become more and more vocal until you give in’ state of debate.
There’s elements in most things in life I don’t like/agree with but repeating the same thing endlessly will not change anything. People are allowed to disagree with your own passionate views!