Facebook - Horse shot by livery owner

[Red-1]

Neil if you'd seen a few bad loaders you'd know that they can be perfectly sweet and calm as soon as you take them away from the lorry ramp.

It is appalling, but not unbelievable.

That part IS believable, but if the horse was "sweet and calm" as you suggest when taken away from the lorry ramp, then surely it could have been turned back out in it's field, or led to the garden, not shot in the head???????

TBH CPT I do not understand your point of view.

 

[NeilM]

Neil if you'd seen a few bad loaders you'd know that they can be perfectly sweet and calm as soon as you take them away from the lorry ramp.

It is appalling, but not unbelievable.

The shooting is not unbelievable (although it is sickening), but picking the body up in a JCB bucket and dumping it in the front garden, that is another matter entirely.

 

[Goldenstar]

'the police know we're he is' - would be good if this typo could be corrected. Also would get more signatures without using the word 'murdered' as is not technically correct unless we murder all the cows and sheep we eat. Agree with the petition BTW but would want those points correcting.

You agree with a petition suggesting that PM should decide who gets jailed and fined wow that's out there.

 

[Illusion100]

'the police know we're he is' - would be good if this typo could be corrected. Also would get more signatures without using the word 'murdered' as is not technically correct unless we murder all the cows and sheep we eat. Agree with the petition BTW but would want those points correcting.

I've just come across it on fb.

 

[Grumpy Herbert]

The shooting is not unbelievable (although it is sickening), but picking the body up in a JCB bucket and dumping it in the front garden, that is another matter entirely.

Yup, that's a sign of a particularly sick minded individual. Hope the publicity surrounding this incident puts an end to his business, livelihood and any dealings with horses, or any other animals for that matter.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

Neil if you'd seen a few bad loaders you'd know that they can be perfectly sweet and calm as soon as you take them away from the lorry ramp.

It is appalling, but not unbelievable.

The owners house where the body of the horse was dumped is a five minute walk from the GG - I know I have used these facilities, the XC jumps and gallops actually back onto the gardens - there was no reason to try and load the horse, they could have just led it round, or got the police to help, or the RSPCA (who apparently rent part of the yard). Also the owner ( not loaner) of the horse has been on this forum explaining that her horse was easy to deal with and did not behave in the manner described manner. Referencing bad loading is not appropriate, its an excuse likely considered in retrospect, by an idiot who could not control his temper. There are rumours ( which I cannot validate of course) that the owner has done similar before with gypsy ponies that came onto his land and then weren't collected.

 

[Smurf's Gran]

You agree with a petition suggesting that PM should decide who gets jailed and fined wow that's out there.

Lets hope the BNP never get a PM then

 

[Kaida]

This is the crux - the whole reason they have said they shot is because it was dangerous. If this behaviour was limited to when attempting to load then a distance they can drive through with a JCB at 9pm is a distance they can lead the horse. If the behaviour was not limited to the time when attempting to load then it seems very unlikely they could get a nice point blank clean shot.

If this was all they did then why was there bailer twine about the horses legs and why did initial reports (by the vet who initially inspected) mention lacerations all over the body?

Something doesn't line up. Whatever the amount in question was, this is not the moral or humane way to deal with this. Also, the RSPCA being on the same site means to me they should be seen to make a clear account of this instead of doing the usual smoke and mirrors. I would like to see a World Horse Welfare or BHS report on this - a source who is not linked personally to the site.

 

[rockysmum]

This is the crux - the whole reason they have said they shot is because it was dangerous. If this behaviour was limited to when attempting to load then a distance they can drive through with a JCB at 9pm is a distance they can lead the horse. If the behaviour was not limited to the time when attempting to load then it seems very unlikely they could get a nice point blank clean shot.

If this was all they did then why was there bailer twine about the horses legs and why did initial reports (by the vet who initially inspected) mention lacerations all over the body?

Something doesn't line up. Whatever the amount in question was, this is not the moral or humane way to deal with this. Also, the RSPCA being on the same site means to me they should be seen to make a clear account of this instead of doing the usual smoke and mirrors. I would like to see a World Horse Welfare or BHS report on this - a source who is not linked personally to the site.

I agree, I reported it to both of them this morning. Neither have replied

 

[katherinef]

This is appalling

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/horror-family-treasured-horse-tied-4447222

The gallery pictures are very upsetting but I want to know why she had baler twine round her neck?

 

[Sebastian]

This is the crux - the whole reason they have said they shot is because it was dangerous. If this behaviour was limited to when attempting to load then a distance they can drive through with a JCB at 9pm is a distance they can lead the horse. If the behaviour was not limited to the time when attempting to load then it seems very unlikely they could get a nice point blank clean shot.

If this was all they did then why was there bailer twine about the horses legs and why did initial reports (by the vet who initially inspected) mention lacerations all over the body?

Something doesn't line up. Whatever the amount in question was, this is not the moral or humane way to deal with this. Also, the RSPCA being on the same site means to me they should be seen to make a clear account of this instead of doing the usual smoke and mirrors. I would like to see a World Horse Welfare or BHS report on this - a source who is not linked personally to the site.

Indeed and this is why I keep saying that I would like to hear the full story behind all of this, because it stinks.

 

[Spring Feather]

If this was all they did then why was there bailer twine about the horses legs and why did initial reports (by the vet who initially inspected) mention lacerations all over the body?

We remove any dead horses from our fields with our tractor bucket. No need to tie the legs together as we're just driving them to either the hole in the ground, or put into the knackers truck when he arrives for collection. When getting a dead horse in a bucket, I'm afraid it's not a clean job and sometimes fur does get taken off or wounds are made. Half a tonne of dead horse doesn't just slip in neatly. I suspect the baler twine was used to keep the legs and neck contained whilst the JCB was being driven to the loaners house and the lacerations are very typical of dead horses being bucketed to wherever they are going. If it doesn't add up for you then I imagine you have never had to physically dispose of a dead horse.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Appreciate what you're saying but £30 is barely a debt and, if you are close enough to drive a JCB to a house, you are close enough to drive to this house and confront the owner or indeed walk the horsr there and 'dumpb it by the means of tying to the gate if needs be. You do not decide at 9pm at night to shoot someone's horse!
As said, grass livery caused him no expense. Put the horse up for sale if needs be but shooting it? There is no justification I'm afraid.

I'm not saying its justified, what he did. Only saying I can see why he did it. 30 pounds is a debt, the amount is irrelevant - a debt is a debt. And if he thought the debt was going to increase because she has a reputation for not paying, I can see why he would want to put a stop to that. Grass livery does cost him. It's a livery space that could be taken by a paying customer just as easily as a non paying customer.

I agree with you he should have handled it differently. To take the horse lead it to the house and tie it to the gate would have got it off his land. Maybe he couldn't be bothered to do that :confused3:

I wonder if he will be prosecuted? Is it legal for a YO to shoot any horse that isn't suffering or even one who is suffering? If it was the YO who did it, that is. I would think that shooting a horse he doesn't own would only make the situation worse, if its a crime.

 

[Wagtail]

You agree with a petition suggesting that PM should decide who gets jailed and fined wow that's out there.

No, I agree the person who did this should be jailed should it be proved the allegations are correct. I thought the petition was just being sent to the PM. I stopped reading at the typo and didn't sign.

 

[Moya_999]

My horse Kit was not hard to catch or handle she was a loving mare who did not deserve to end up like this. I would of collected myself rather then it resulting like this.I would hope people would now stop posting pictures and speculating about my horse. I'm devastated that they decided to carry out there actions without my consent.

so sorry for your loss green

 

[cptrayes]

That part IS believable, but if the horse was "sweet and calm" as you suggest when taken away from the lorry ramp, then surely it could have been turned back out in it's field, or led to the garden, not shot in the head???????

TBH CPT I do not understand your point of view.

My point of view is quite clear. It was completely unacceptable to shoot the horse but there was no cruelty that can be verified, it was according to the RSPCA a single humane shot and there were no other injuries to the horse.

 

[Custard Cream]

The outcome of this will be very interesting.

If there is no criminal damage and no conviction sought then this will be very worrying for livery users countrywide.

I mean, where would this stop? What about if you owe money to vets....are they then going to start be able to come and shoot your horse for non-payment?

 

[cptrayes]

No, I agree the person who did this should be jailed should it be proved the allegations are correct. I thought the petition was just being sent to the PM. I stopped reading at the typo and didn't sign.

That's not possible Wagtail, he has not committed a jailable offence.

 

[Alec Swan]

Whether the Yard owner has committed a crime will be for the CPS to decide. Just what the rspca are going to do I'm not sure!

My own view, and from what I've read, is that this may well turn out to be a Civil matter. As for the woman who was supposedly the 'Loanee' of the horse, if it wasn't her property, then I'm not sure that even she can bring a case. Perhaps the 'Owner' will be the one to bring Civil proceedings.

The Yard Owner appears to claim that the horse was shot by a competent person. That in itself is not illegal, providing that if the person who shot the horse, was unlicensed, and took neither payment nor reward, then they haven't committed an offence. As the horse appears to have been shot with a handgun, then they would be licensed slaughterers, I'd have thought, because handguns are no longer allowed to be held by any other than those who are licensed, and can show a need.

That's all by the by, it was a strange course of action to take, I'd have thought.

Alec.

ets, …….. 'That's not possible Wagtail, he has not committed a mailable offence'. Nor a jailable one either cpt! I'm not altogether sure that the man concerned has actually committed a criminal offence.

 

[Honey08]

Horrific, whatever the reasons or details, which may or may not come out.

I hope that he is prosecuted. If nothing else, there are legalities regarding how you have to dispose of a dead horse, and parading them through a housing estate in a JCB and dumping them on a lawn are not included.

In the meantime, I hope that the Yorkshire horsey community stands up and stands together in never using The GG Centre ever again for anything.

 

[Spring Feather]

The outcome of this will be very interesting.

If there is no criminal damage and no conviction sought then this will be very worrying for livery users countrywide.

I mean, where would this stop? What about if you owe money to vets....are they then going to start be able to come and shoot your horse for non-payment?

You aren't seriously worried about this are you? If so, don't board your horse at a yard owned by a lunatic, and don't use a vet who is mentally unstable. And for extra measure, make sure you pay your bills on time.

 

[YorksG]

The outcome of this will be very interesting.

If there is no criminal damage and no conviction sought then this will be very worrying for livery users countrywide.

I mean, where would this stop? What about if you owe money to vets....are they then going to start be able to come and shoot your horse for non-payment?

Absolutely, or even if someone just wants to shoot a random horse! If this sees no prosecution, then anyone can humanely kill anyones animal, if you take the logic further.

 

[rockysmum]

That's not possible Wagtail, he has not committed a jailable offence.

I wonder if he might have done, if you pay someone else to commit the act, does that not make you also guilty.

I am thinking of those who pay hitmen, dont they get prosecuted for conspiracy to commit murder.

 

[cptrayes]

The shooting is not unbelievable (although it is sickening), but picking the body up in a JCB bucket and dumping it in the front garden, that is another matter entirely.

There is actually an argument, which he may well use in court, that he is required to return the 'property' to the owner. Though since he shouldn't have shot the horse in the first place, it is obviously an outrageous thing to have done.

 

[Moya_999]

Usually post from CPT just like the newspaper

There is no suggestion that the horse suffered in being put down at all. I have had four horses shot. It was quiet, quick, painless and very stress free each time.

Well are you not the lucky one having four horse shot without any problems. "round of applause I think (not)". Please explain why your situations means this horse did not suffer as previous post have backed up she might/did??

No there isn't. The RSPCA have said that the horse was humanely destroyed with one shot to the head.

Well then we must all believe what the RSPCA say after all they are known for acting and reporting the truth are they not??

It is not illegal to shoot a horse.

GGMS for Christ sake he is shooting someones horse WITHOUT the owners knowledge.

But before condemning shooting the horse I would want to know how old it was, whether it was in good health, and when the loaner last went to see it.

.

You must be reading a totally different article than the rest of us.
There were other options in getting their petty little £ 30 back - sheesh with a so called big yard like this is worried about £30 bloody pounds I would start questioning their financial status if I was a livery, and this shows me they are not worried about an animal more about their pockets.

The age of the horse and health has already been disclosed by the owner before your uncalled for post. Typical unpleasantness from you sad to say.


So many members here have said horses were dumped in their fields or owners behind in rent. We have one behind their rent at my yard but the owner wont go about shooting it.

point being:

• The age etc is irrelevant when it was not his horse to shoot.

• he did not have owners permission.

• the horse has already been said by the owner was in good health and good natured.

*Green* I hope you get the answers and justice for your lovely mare, most of us send vibes and RIP for beautiful Kit who was the tragic victim of a few very twisted humans

 

[cptrayes]

I wonder if he might have done, if you pay someone else to commit the act, does that not make you also guilty.

I am thinking of those who pay hitmen, dont they get prosecuted for conspiracy to commit murder.

Sorry, there is nothing whatever illegal about anyone, you or me included, shooting a horse as long as it is done humanely.

His crime is only criminal damage of a low value.

 

[rockysmum]

And just because I was reading about it anyway

SECTION 59 OF THE POLICE REFORM ACT - ANTI SOCIAL DRIVING OFFENCES
New laws in respect of certain anti social driving offences can now be dealt with by Section 59 of the Police Reform Act.

Basically what that means is if you are seen:

Driving in a careless or inconsiderate manner
Driving on common land, a footpath or bridle way or any land which is not part of a road
Driving in a manner which is causing/has been causing, or is likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public


Surely driving around with a dead horse and dropping it in a garden would come under number 3. I am sure there are plenty of things they could use if they really wanted to prosecute.

 

[rockysmum]

Sorry, there is nothing whatever illegal about anyone, you or me included, shooting a horse as long as it is done humanely.

His crime is only criminal damage of a low value.

But someone paid the slaughter person to commit criminal damage

 

[Jaycee]

Seriously???? I can't think that Kit's owners would agree with you on that comment!

 

[Alec Swan]

Sorry, there is nothing whatever illegal about anyone, you or me included, shooting a horse as long as it is done humanely.

His crime is only criminal damage of a low value.

If that. I'm sorry but cpt is right in that however shameful the man's behaviour, Courts and the Legal processes only view shameful behaviour as an increased view or the bearing upon the gravity of the crime, and again, that's assuming that a crime has been committed.

The man concerned can just be grateful that the horse wasn't my property.

Alec.