Horse being hit around the head

[southerncomfort]

I'm beginning to find the 'whataboutery' on this forum a bit hard to stomach to be honest.

Hitting is hitting. Violence is violence. The horse doesn't know or care that dobbin down the road suffers much worse abuse, all he knows is that a human hurt him for no reason at all.

Should we let men away with giving the wife a bit of a slap as long as he doesn't break any bones?

 

[Flame_]

I'm beginning to find the 'whataboutery' on this forum a bit hard to stomach to be honest.

Hitting is hitting. Violence is violence. The horse doesn't know or care that dobbin down the road suffers much worse abuse, all he knows is that a human hurt him for no reason at all.

Should we let men away with giving the wife a bit of a slap as long as he doesn't break any bones?

TBF it's more reasonable to expect a man to explain to his wife why he is angry and frustrated with her than it is for a human to explain it to a horse by having a dialogue. Horses do tell each other they're out of order by booting them.

In these circumstances it can't be in any way justified since from the horse's POV, it was punished for being caught, the human's behavior served no purpose at all except to demonstrate to the other humans what a "badass" she was, and she ended up looking, at best, a tit, at worst a cow.

 

[ycbm]

I can't get my ahead around hunters on the forum seeking to excuse the behaviour in any way. I am hoping to trail, drag or bloodhound Joe. I'm bloody furious that this angry woman lost her temper in front of a camera that she must have known was likely to be there, in doing so making it less likely that there's going to be any kind of hunting left for me to do.

Yes, I've done as bad myself, though quite a few years back now. Yes, worse happens daily in livery yards. Yes, trial by social media is out of control and I hope she does not suffer disproportionately for what is a relatively minor level of abuse even if it is, as it is, unacceptable.

But hunt supporters need to understand that because of illegal behaviour of many hunts every single person who is out following a hunt is in a social media spotlight. If people want their sport to continue they need to be angry about this woman, not excusing her.

 

[SO1]

What I find quite frustrating is because this happened at hunt this is going to very in much in the media and there will be a lot of focus on this woman which will not only have a huge impact on her but her family.

Whereas that awful women Kate G who neglected her clients horse and caused a death will be able to continue her business and compete. She is exactly the sort of person who needs monitoring by sabs but because it is all behind closed doors and sabs are ignorant of this sort of abuse it does not happen. There is absolutely a place for monitoring animal welfare but sometimes I think due to ignorance the resources are misdirected. There are a lot of issues with dealers and breeders and other professionals that could really do with being monitored.

 

[honetpot]

I'm beginning to find the 'whataboutery' on this forum a bit hard to stomach to be honest.

Hitting is hitting. Violence is violence. The horse doesn't know or care that dobbin down the road suffers much worse abuse, all he knows is that a human hurt him for no reason at all.

Should we let men away with giving the wife a bit of a slap as long as he doesn't break any bones?

This is all true, but I just wish people would stand up when horses are being abused on yards, with the justification of training. The two main ones that are common are lunging, where someone gets a horse in the school and their mate beats the**** out of it, any time it does something 'wrong'. Or the horse that will not go near a fence with someone stood at the side of it and stops, as it's been 'over' rapped, oh and let's not for the strapping in of head, tightened nosebands, and the over biting.

 

[SO1]

I totally agree and the hunt itself and their governing body should be taking advice on how to deal with this instance and be issuing a media statement to condone the behaviour and ban her from hunt regardless of who she is.

I feel sorry for the horse and also the innocent child in this situation who will have to go to school tomorrow.

I can't get my ahead around hunters on the forum seeking to excuse the behaviour in any way. I am hoping to trail, drag or bloodhound Joe. I'm bloody furious that this angry woman lost her temper in front of a camera that she must have known was likely to be there, in doing so making it less likely that there's going to be any kind of hunting left for me to do.

Yes, I've done as bad myself, though quite a few years back now. Yes, worse happens daily in livery yards. Yes, trial by social media is out of control and I hope she does not suffer disproportionately for what is a relatively minor level of abuse even if it is, as it is, unacceptable.

But hunt supporters need to understand that because of illegal behaviour of many hunts every single person who is out following a hunt is in a social media spotlight. If people want their sport to continue they need to be angry about this woman, not excusing her.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I can't get my ahead around hunters on the forum seeking to excuse the behaviour in any way.

It's because the end of all hunting with hounds is now a very live possibility post the Mark Hankinson verdict, and they are panicking like mad.

I am very disappointed in some posters who I had previously thought much better of.

 

[mini_b]

I have walloped horses in the past, I am not a fluffy handler at all, but you do have to set them up to succeed.
To my mind the fact she was hunting is irrelevant, except of course it wouldn’t have got the exposure if she had been doing dressage, for instance.

to be fair there was quite the furore when the German trainer walloped that horse during the modern pentathlon.. just think folk don’t like seeing horses get smacked about.

im also not a “fluffy handler” either but giving it a smack round head REPEATEDLY was totally pointless. It was a temper tantrum.

 

[Nancykitt]

I used to hunt with bloodhounds when I lived in England...unfortunately I had to give it up when I moved up here. (There are compensations, but I miss it!)

I did see a few things that upset me in the 10 years or so that I was hunting, including similar behaviour to that shown in the video. It's absolutely appalling and there is no excuse whatsoever.
However, as others have said, this type of thing is sadly not uncommon and I've seen even worse behaviour at local shows. This does not excuse in any way the behaviour seen in the video. But I find it a bit unsettling that the social media campaign is focused entirely on associating this behaviour with hunting. Some people on Twitter had actually posted stuff to the effect of 'It's only hunters who are cruel to their horses', which is clearly not true. Several people were saying that most hunting people treat their horses like this and that banning all hunting is the only way to stop such horse abuse.

The difficulty is that I want to defend the many, many people who go hunting and treat their horses like kings and queens. I suppose I can say that in response to some of the SM comments but it's unlikely that anyone would listen to me. And most of us wouldn't say 'I've seen similar behaviour at horse shows' because few people would take kindly to sabs/activists turning their spring and summer attention to local shows.

I'm not expressing myself very well, I suppose I'm just trying to say that it's being made (by SM commentators) into an exclusively hunting issue and it's definitely not.

 

[HackWithMe]

Worked though the little monkey loaded .
Not the worse bit of horse handling I have seen .

Are you actually backing that awful woman’s actions?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Includes reaction from the RSPCA and the Hunting Office.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-07/upsetting-hunt-rider-condemned-for-slapping-and-kicking-horse

 

[southerncomfort]

I used to hunt with bloodhounds when I lived in England...unfortunately I had to give it up when I moved up here. (There are compensations, but I miss it!)

I did see a few things that upset me in the 10 years or so that I was hunting, including similar behaviour to that shown in the video. It's absolutely appalling and there is no excuse whatsoever.
However, as others have said, this type of thing is sadly not uncommon and I've seen even worse behaviour at local shows. This does not excuse in any way the behaviour seen in the video. But I find it a bit unsettling that the social media campaign is focused entirely on associating this behaviour with hunting. Some people on Twitter had actually posted stuff to the effect of 'It's only hunters who are cruel to their horses', which is clearly not true. Several people were saying that most hunting people treat their horses like this and that banning all hunting is the only way to stop such horse abuse.

The difficulty is that I want to defend the many, many people who go hunting and treat their horses like kings and queens. I suppose I can say that in response to some of the SM comments but it's unlikely that anyone would listen to me. And most of us wouldn't say 'I've seen similar behaviour at horse shows' because few people would take kindly to sabs/activists turning their spring and summer attention to local shows.

I'm not expressing myself very well, I suppose I'm just trying to say that it's being made (by SM commentators) into an exclusively hunting issue and it's definitely not.

To be honest I'm more afraid of it being used against the whole horse community.

The general public won't differentiate between a rider that hunts and one that doesn't. All they'll see is a rider punching her horse in the face for seemingly no reason.

It reflects badly on ALL of us and that's why we must not EVER defend this sort of behaviour.

 

[fetlock]

I don't quite know what to say about this incident, other than that the footage is appalling to watch, the women involved is an abusive **** and an utter fool, and I feel extremely sorry for the child whose pony that presumably was, having to deal with the aftermath of that.

Obviously the fact that it happened at a hunt meet incenses many who are anti-hunting all the more, but footage like that would incense at any time.

Not that this makes any difference whatsoever to this particular incident but, having spent the third night in a row now with my very stressed cat glued to my side because of fireworks, I'll mention it anyway. How many of these in uproar about it have indulged in fireworks this weekend, with absolutely no concern whatsoever for the trauma it causes to so many animals- domestic and wild - including foxes.

 

[SOS]

All I’m gonna say is that this is being shared widely by lots of PRO hunting people on my Facebook and they are not happy with her actions either. We are also quite local to the Cotts, some of the people sharing hunt with them… no idea who she is but guessing not very liked!

 

[palo1]

Good grief, just keep it all quiet then, sweep it under the carpet. Keep your dirty little secrets!

That isn't what I was suggesting at all and you are being unnecessarily cynical and defensive.

 

[Sandstone1]

That isn't what I was suggesting at all and you are being unnecessarily cynical and defensive.

Thats your opinion, which I dont agree with or care for. That woman was abusing that pony and whatever you say or think its not acceptable. You can twist it or try to spin it anyway you like but there is no excuse.

 

[Upthecreek]

CP should have simply reported this rather than whipping up a social media hate storm for the sake of his own agenda. That is vile, irresponsible and in the context, potentially dangerous behaviour even whilst the behaviour of this woman is also vile.

If hunters are to be afraid then the next targets will be shooters and their dogs, racing, then of course, or possibly simultaneously farmers and finally pet owners, meat eaters etc.

Nobody needs to be afraid if they aren’t beating or abusing their animals. If they are, whatever walk of life they come from or whatever activity they are participating in, they should be prepared to be vilified if they are caught doing it on camera.

 

[holeymoley]

What a witch.

 

[palo1]

I'm beginning to find the 'whataboutery' on this forum a bit hard to stomach to be honest.

Hitting is hitting. Violence is violence. The horse doesn't know or care that dobbin down the road suffers much worse abuse, all he knows is that a human hurt him for no reason at all.

Should we let men away with giving the wife a bit of a slap as long as he doesn't break any bones?

I don't think that is what anyone is suggesting? I think there is a response that this isn't, sadly, particularly unusual behaviour in the horse world even though we can see that this behaviour toward an animal in our care is wrong. That is relevant because the clip is presented as demonstrating that hunting specifically promotes this kind of vile behaviour which is simply not true and that is what other people are saying I think.

 

[palo1]

Nobody needs to be afraid if they aren’t beating or abusing their animals. If they are, whatever walk of life they come from or whatever activity they are participating in, they should be prepared to be vilified if they are caught doing it on camera.

You've misunderstood me I think. Hunting is in the spotlight because of the way that there has been so much controversy both historically and currently about it as an activity - regardless of illegal hunting reports and convictions which have been high profile and shocking for many people. Increasingly people are questioning our relationship with and behaviour toward animals - particularly where field sports/country sports etc are concerned. There is a lobby against all of those activities (hunting, shooting, fishing) because they are not seen as essential and are seen as 'cruel'. There is also a lobby against animal farming and increasingly against meat eating and pet owning.

The very existence of any of those things, is for some people, abhorrent and that lobby is effective in their communications and very noisy and attractive to the media . That kind of discussion sells in spite of the huge contradictions in all manner of ways.

 

[palo1]

I can't get my ahead around hunters on the forum seeking to excuse the behaviour in any way. I am hoping to trail, drag or bloodhound Joe. I'm bloody furious that this angry woman lost her temper in front of a camera that she must have known was likely to be there, in doing so making it less likely that there's going to be any kind of hunting left for me to do.

Yes, I've done as bad myself, though quite a few years back now. Yes, worse happens daily in livery yards. Yes, trial by social media is out of control and I hope she does not suffer disproportionately for what is a relatively minor level of abuse even if it is, as it is, unacceptable.

But hunt supporters need to understand that because of illegal behaviour of many hunts every single person who is out following a hunt is in a social media spotlight. If people want their sport to continue they need to be angry about this woman, not excusing her.

For goodness sake @ycbm, no hunters have excused the behaviour! You have literally just said that you have done similar: 'I've done as bad myself...' So if it was good enough a strategy for you (even if you have learnt better and alternative strategies now) why on earth would you think that everyone else would be 'better' than you?

Has your behaviour ever shocked, offended or upset anyone? Have you ever done anything to damage someone else's enjoyment of something?

Just saying...

ETA - just in case you are not clear I certainly have not condoned, excused or contextualised this woman's behaviour to 'sanitise' her hitting and kicking a horse. I have said that it is appalling. I expect when you had 'done as bad' there was a reason. It still didn't justify it but you at least know what that reason was. This woman will have had a reason, not a justification or excuse but a reason.

 

[windand rain]

No matter where it was filmed or by whom it is dreadful. Perhaps the RSPCA officers should investigate this then take themselves off to some shows and amateur showjumping and perhaps a trip to dressage too. There is no excuse for violence/cruelty from over or underfeeding and the behaviour found daily where kids are taught to boot horses on or hit them or grab at reins yanking hands etc are all wrong who protects those ponies. Who stops the current trend of obesity, battering horses over fences, hauling hands in dressage. Sadly all are real and better education is probably the only way forward.

 

[palo1]

I don't quite know what to say about this incident, other than that the footage is appalling to watch, the women involved is an abusive **** and an utter fool, and I feel extremely sorry for the child whose pony that presumably was, having to deal with the aftermath of that.

Obviously the fact that it happened at a hunt meet incenses many who are anti-hunting all the more, but footage like that would incense at any time.

Not that this makes any difference whatsoever to this particular incident but, having spent the third night in a row now with my very stressed cat glued to my side because of fireworks, I'll mention it anyway. How many of these in uproar about it have indulged in fireworks this weekend, with absolutely no concern whatsoever for the trauma it causes to so many animals- domestic and wild - including foxes.

Absolutely right. I don't expect we will see many social media condemnations from CP or any other sleb for people having firework displays near livestock nor any issues raised about all manner of damaging but convenient activities, because it is too easy to alienate people if you do that!

 

[Nancykitt]

...the clip is presented as demonstrating that hunting specifically promotes this kind of vile behaviour which is simply not true and that is what other people are saying I think.

Yes, this is what I meant. The comments on SM posts I've seen are very much about hunting - specifically - literally encouraging horse abuse.

 

[palo1]

Yes, this is what I meant. The comments on SM posts I've seen are very much about hunting - specifically - literally encouraging horse abuse.

Well hunting is a convenient whipping boy and recent events have been hunting's very own worst enemy sadly.

 

[ycbm]

For goodness sake @ycbm, no hunters have excused the behaviour!

What thread are you reading? They have, and on this thread.
.

 

[palo1]

Includes reaction from the RSPCA and the Hunting Office.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-07/upsetting-hunt-rider-condemned-for-slapping-and-kicking-horse

I am delighted that the HO and the Cottesmore hunt have made it clear that this behaviour cannot be excused. I hope that message has been received loud and clear wherever it might be needed too.

 

[fetlock]

Absolutely right. I don't expect we will see many social media condemnations from CP or any other sleb for people having firework displays near livestock nor any issues raised about all manner of damaging but convenient activities, because it is too easy to alienate people if you do that!

I've just shared the post about the Exmoor pony killed becaus of fireworks this weekend.
On Twitter, I've probably had at least six people so far that I follow who have retweeted a post about the hunt incident today. I'll be lucky if one person gives the fireworks related one even just a like. I may be pleasantly surprised and more take note, but very much doubt it. Stick in that it happened because of a hunt though and it would go viral.

 

[Sandstone1]

I am delighted that the HO and the Cottesmore hunt have made it clear that this behaviour cannot be excused. I hope that message has been received loud and clear wherever it might be needed too.

Oh thats ok then

 

[palo1]

What thread are you reading? They have, and on this thread.
.

Can you identify those posts - I have just re-read the thread and cannot find anyone who has excused that behaviour?