tristar
Well-Known Member
well in other words they aint that good then are they really!
I’m not sure what to think….
- Thread starter Mistletoeandawine
- Start date
well in other words they aint that good then are they really!
Mule
Well-Known Member
Afaik, the natural horsemanship people don't have a problem with getting off and leading. They tend to solve ridden problems through groundwork. I think that explains the different attitudes. I don't know if that idea of solving problems is the same in western riding in general.
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Cortez
Tough but Fair
In a world that calculates being good at something by winning competitions, not necessarily.
scats
Well-Known Member
Well arguably they are. I haven’t ridden at that level so they certainly have more experience than me in that sense. They are certainly going to have more people wanting to aspire to be like them than an average Joe like me. I suppose Im just highlighting how tricky it all is.
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Curly_Feather
Well-Known Member
I have nothing constructive to add to this thread except to raise my hand and point accusingly at my horse
mossycup
Well-Known Member
This is the full video of the minutes leading up to the clip -
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216788128015489&id=1831655679
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10216788128015489&id=1831655679
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
I think you obviously have to be very competitive and have huge determination to make it to the very top in any sport and stay there (as well as having a lot of money behind you in equestrian sports). And that is probably what sets those people apart. And in some cases the will to win and be the best supersedes horsemanship or sportsmanship. Being prepared to do things that most of us wouldn’t to achieve results at the highest level. For example most of us wouldn’t consider taking banned substances or give them to our horses to give ourselves a competitive advantage because that is cheating. Most of us wouldn’t contemplate using pinch boots or electric spurs. Top sports men and women say that you have to be prepared to make a lot of sacrifices to reach the pinnacle of their sport. Perhaps that is how some of them justify unsporting behaviour?
tristar
Well-Known Member
but i don`t judge a good horse person by those standards, frankly i would not let some of them hold my horse, let alone ride it
i have people i trust totally with my horses, they have never been in a competition, but they love and understand horses, gifted
and most `top riders`ride with spurs, so i would not want the job of scraping them up off the floor in the aftermath
tristar
Well-Known Member
but you still would not be happy, for some reason for some to ride your horses
AmyMay
Situation normal
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I've twice had riders who compete at GP level dressage sit on my horses, and each time it was disastrous
.Both got on, fixed their hands and jammed on their legs, and the horses were 'WtF?' Both riders blamed the horses, of course, but neither rider was prepared or able to change their way of riding one iota to suit the horses they were on.
The most recent one was the late maxicob, who was very forward thinking and sensitive to ride. The GP rider changed after watching the horse from the ground while I rode him and saying 'What a fantastic horse, he'll definitely go to advanced, let me help you book a private lesson with Stephen Clarke' to riding him and saying 'Omg, he's dangerous, you make a difficult horse look much easier than he is'
.This isn't me trying to big myself up, I'm an average rider who tries my best to be as good as I can. It's the disappointment in those who I had thought were capable and knowledgeable by virtue of competing at the top level.
tristar
Well-Known Member
oh T POM that is awful, but thanks for posting, it is valuable input to consider when letting others ride your horses
my stallion hacks beautifully round the farm with his sponsor, does not do a lot, but for some reason they look lovely together, and he did not ride for 20 years before starting up again
my stallion hacks beautifully round the farm with his sponsor, does not do a lot, but for some reason they look lovely together, and he did not ride for 20 years before starting up again
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
A Nations Cup SJ once had a go on my PSG dressage horse.....never again.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Interesting perspective, put alongside the multiple teenagers who like to boast that only they can ride their "dangerous" horses, I for one would be mortified if my horses didn't go at least adequately for any rider. It's a good test of your training, just like competing.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I don't get this? I'm an amateur. My horses are trained to go off light aids. Aren't light and tactful aids what we're supposed to be aiming at? As a rule, it's only me that rides my horses, I'm not setting them up for others to ride.
The GP riders got on and SHOUTED THEIR DEMANDS at my horses. The horses did not understand what on earth they were supposed to be doing.
Instead of asking another way, the GP riders stuck at what they knew - which was rammed on legs and hands.
If I got on a horse and upset it so much that it panicked I'd be mortified, and I would blame my bad riding. But then I'm an amateur.
The GP riders got on and SHOUTED THEIR DEMANDS at my horses. The horses did not understand what on earth they were supposed to be doing.
Instead of asking another way, the GP riders stuck at what they knew - which was rammed on legs and hands.
If I got on a horse and upset it so much that it panicked I'd be mortified, and I would blame my bad riding. But then I'm an amateur
.
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
This is also my view. Top riders / other professional riders break horses all the time trying to achieve the highest levels. How many people here have sent their horse for backing / schooling and it’s come back broken or sour? A fair few I’ve seen over the years.
I also don’t agree people always do it because they love or have a passion for horses. Some do but for others it’s what they’ve been brought up doing or they like the thrill / adrenaline it gives them. Some just like the power and control they have over another life.
After chatting about it in our yard tea room at the weekend I heard a number of horrific stories from former yard workers about how horses had been treated on professional yards they’d worked on.
Apart from a lack of talent I just don’t think I could push any horse to the limits professionals do as my prime concern is keeping my horses sound and happy.
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
I don't get this? I'm an amateur. My horses are trained to go off light aids. Aren't light and tactful aids what we're supposed to be aiming at? As a rule, it's only me that rides my horses, I'm not setting them up for others to ride.
The GP riders got on and SHOUTED THEIR DEMANDS at my horses. The horses did not understand what on earth they were supposed to be doing.
Instead of asking another way, the GP riders stuck at what they knew - which was rammed on legs and hands.
If I got on a horse and upset it so much that it panicked I'd be mortified, and I would blame my bad riding. But then I'm an amateur
Didn’t you know you’ve got to have worked with horses for 40 years and competed across all disciplines to have any worthy opinion? Clearly your horses have been ruined by you …..
Cortez
Tough but Fair
You are obviously being sarcastic, but can anyone explain the point of having horses that can't be ridden by anyone except oneself? Surely that is limiting the horses chances in life?
TPO
Well-Known Member
As with everything I think there's some middle ground
I'm pretty sure we can all name someone who claims to be the only person who can ride their hot/sharp/"dangerous" horse. When really if they were half as good as they made out their horse would be trained so that someone competent could ride them and live!
But somehow people still see it as bragging rights that they have/ride something so "difficult" rather than an embarrassment that they can't improve the horse.
Having said that there are of course genuinely tricky horses out there would require handling/riding/management in a very specific way.
The type of horses that no matter how good or empathetic a rider you are a relationship is needed before you can get good/the best/not life threatening work from them.
I'd say based on my experience that there are far fewer difficult horses than there are people proud of their "difficult" horses!!
So to me there's truth in both Cortez and TPs posts and there are so many variants to it that there can't be a firm line as to what someone should or could do.
I'm pretty sure we can all name someone who claims to be the only person who can ride their hot/sharp/"dangerous" horse. When really if they were half as good as they made out their horse would be trained so that someone competent could ride them and live!
But somehow people still see it as bragging rights that they have/ride something so "difficult" rather than an embarrassment that they can't improve the horse.
Having said that there are of course genuinely tricky horses out there would require handling/riding/management in a very specific way.
The type of horses that no matter how good or empathetic a rider you are a relationship is needed before you can get good/the best/not life threatening work from them.
I'd say based on my experience that there are far fewer difficult horses than there are people proud of their "difficult" horses!!
So to me there's truth in both Cortez and TPs posts and there are so many variants to it that there can't be a firm line as to what someone should or could do.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
can't speak for anyone else but i've had a pro ride one of mine when i've been unable to work through a problem, or needed something moving on in a way i wasn't able to either in terms of ability, or bravery... i can say hand on heart i don't think any of my horses have suffered as a result but whenever i've done that i was expecting, and needed a stronger rider than i am. it doesn't excuse any poor riding but in my own case i've sometimes wanted someone to basically sort out a problem of some kind.
sometimes i have had pros that tackle something head on. other times it's been someone with just more ideas about how to work through something, or better timing etc. So again just as a generalisation I think pro's sometimes turn up with a point to prove, that's often why they've been called. obviously it would be preferable if there was a convo upfront about what the expectations are on both sides.
I think any of mine could have been ridden by anyone competent tbh, you wouldn't get a tune out of Kira necessarily without understanding how she likes to be ridden but a simple w/t/c and some sideways would be no issue.
sometimes i have had pros that tackle something head on. other times it's been someone with just more ideas about how to work through something, or better timing etc. So again just as a generalisation I think pro's sometimes turn up with a point to prove, that's often why they've been called. obviously it would be preferable if there was a convo upfront about what the expectations are on both sides.
I think any of mine could have been ridden by anyone competent tbh, you wouldn't get a tune out of Kira necessarily without understanding how she likes to be ridden but a simple w/t/c and some sideways would be no issue.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
If this is in reference to my post, then I have not made myself clear.
Neither horse was particularly difficult for anyone else to ride as long the rider sat quietly and asked tactfully. Something that I'd expect any pro worth their salt to suss out in seconds, and not to double down and keep shouting at them.
Just as I was told when I had my lesson on the riding school horse last week, when I was warned that the lovely Tulip has a very sensitive mouth. I thanked the instructor for telling me and rode her accordingly.
My_old_warmblood
Well-Known Member
I had some smack my first pony for not walking quick enough. It was post heavy workout so we were both knackered and sort of leaning on each other to get down from the arena (path wide enough for people to pass me on both sides. He was on Working Livery at the time, and some disgusting apprentice groom smacked him on the arse when I wasn’t looking. Poor thing was just getting over his fear of whips, and I don’t think the apprentice knew it was me. I spun around (I was far younger than her) glared at her and said “I’ll have you know this is my horse and I’m okay with him walking slowly”. I was fuming and took him home for good as it made me paranoid.
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
For me, the salient point from TPs post is that the best riders can adapt to whatever horse is in front of them, and get the best out of them. That is the ‘feel’ that we are always striving for, and as an amateur, it’s something I’m always trying to find on a strange horse! A really great rider can sit on a horse, get a read on them straight away, and improve them. You can be a technically correct rider but IMO if you can’t adapt your style (not drastically!!) to suit to the horse, then you are lacking that feel that separates out the best. Goes without saying, back to MT, if you can’t do that without beating the horse up, then you need to take a good hard look at how you train and ride.
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
Where has anyone said that? must have missed it?
palo1
Well-Known Member
I am interested in the experiences of those who have had pro riders riding their horses and finding that 'tricky' as I have always found it invaluable and haven't had difficulties but I have know the professional's approach and trusted that tbh. What sort of issues have you encountered? What is worth thinking about for us amateur riders and trainers is the benefit to our horses of training resiliance and confidence in their way of going. Not only does that help their life chances if something should go awfully wrong at home but also provides us with a brilliant opportunity to seek help and advice. I would be mortified to have to explain my horse's 'sensitivities' to a pro; I expect them to get those (and in my experience they do, very quickly!) without coming over as some sort of helicopter owner!! The 'resilience and confidence' I mean is the ability to accept a variety of styles or aids (not extreme versions obviously) and still work confidently and safely with those. I have had pros with stronger riding styles to my own really help work out where a problem is exactly and then work through it; generally that is what I have paid for so having a horse that can't accept that kind of input seems really counter-productive to me!!
I would obviously choose which pros to use but then we do that with any task don't we? That is one of the reasons we might go to a clinic too; to see what approach the trainer might use.
I would obviously choose which pros to use but then we do that with any task don't we? That is one of the reasons we might go to a clinic too; to see what approach the trainer might use.
sky1000
Well-Known Member
I can't remember where I read this at all, but I loved David Broome's description of how the four finalists had to swap onto all three other horses in some show jumping competition and how he thought about how to (and did) ride them. One of them was Matty Brown, I think, and another looked very difficult. So much so that one of the other riders was thinking of dropping out to avoid riding him, on the basis that he had a family. But after David's calm round on him he was reassured. DB did win I think.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Look, I am sorry but why was the apprentice disgusting??? His or her behaviour may have been disgusting to you or you may have been disgusted with their conduct but it seems really unfair to call the person disgusting. That is the kind of language that causes all manner of issues on social media.
Rowreach
👀
The best riders (at all levels) have the sensitivity to know which horses don't suit them and vice versa (I can think of several horses who've swapped riders in the interests of the horse, again at all levels).
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
Ironically I don’t think what she posted actually helps MT’s case at all. What was the need to make the horse jump off the higher step? Why not just call it a day on a good (ish) note after it jumped off the smaller step?
It is strange that the girl on the horse in the clinic only just posted it two years later, but so what, it happened. As for the girl who posted the unedited version accusing the girl on the horse of ruining MT’s life by posting the video, the fact is nobody made him do it. He’s a grown up and he only has himself to blame for the damage to his reputation.
TPO
Well-Known Member
How I've felt any time a trainer has ridden my horses ??