Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I believe that is because it is killed with the halal method of slaughter. I think that makes it cheaper although it would seem more labour intensive.
Panorama tonight - racing industry and slaughterhouses
- Thread starter Marigold4
- Start date
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Presumably so you could have a passport where it wasn't signed out of the food chain. I don't know the processes involved, do they just check the microchip matches the passport? Check it hadn't been signed out of the food chain and treat the carcass as suitable for meat. Would they look up details of each horse online to check. There could be different breeds with passports from different agencies and the example in the programme was pts on the racecourse, there could be others where the death wasn't registered.
fankino04
Well-Known Member
How are there so many horses that aren't signed out of the food chain, I don't think I know of any horse who's never had at least 1 sachet of Bute and they do far less strenuous work than sports horses who must surely be getting little niggles and then Bute to get them over it. Do vets need to be held to account more for not insisting on having the passport when they prescribe things?
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Good point. I think there will be a few vets who work on racing yards who will be sweating after watching that programme.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
low costs and high yield being my point.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
It's because it's a huge industry and has lower production cost overall.
They use Halal methods because there is massive demand in the Middle East for lamb that can't all be supplied locally. It's easier to use the same method for all but leave it to the supermarkets to decide how to label it.
Fellewell
Well-Known Member
Expensive horses get injuries and sometimes have behavioural issues. Some of them are a challenge to the professionals and have no place with a leisure rider, regardless of how much money they may have won.
I'm sure the animal aid guy is a nice person with his field full of rugged up geriatric horses (on bute for comfort?) but a slaughter house is too easy a target and it should be remembered that euthanasia at an animal's home does not always go to plan. Vets can make mistakes. At least at the slaughter house there is back up for failed attempts.
The problem here seems to be bute in the food chain (who knew!) and that horses that look nice or are trusting/famous should live forever. They can't all be rehabbed. They don't always come sound. That's the truth, sadly.
I'm sure the animal aid guy is a nice person with his field full of rugged up geriatric horses (on bute for comfort?) but a slaughter house is too easy a target and it should be remembered that euthanasia at an animal's home does not always go to plan. Vets can make mistakes. At least at the slaughter house there is back up for failed attempts.
The problem here seems to be bute in the food chain (who knew!) and that horses that look nice or are trusting/famous should live forever. They can't all be rehabbed. They don't always come sound. That's the truth, sadly.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
No that's no correct. It is just economy of scale.
I would think that halal would actually be slower, as each one has a prayer. There is a very large demand for Halal meat in the UK too, in fact there is a local chap, a Pakistani, who has his own slaughterhouse and buys at all the local markets.
All margins are very tight, which is why there are fewer and larger slaughterhouses that have a very large throughput.
In some slaughterhouses animals are killed early in the morning and then in the afternoon the religious slaughtermen and staff come in - so it is for Halal and jewish - probably not in the same one though.
Our local farmers' club have visited two slaughterhouses one in Ireland and one in the UK, which is where our animals go to straight from the farm. In both cases those that went said it was very interesting and they were quite happy with what they had seen and both places have large supermarket contracts so it is obviously in their interests to keep everything running well.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
You are missing the point. Are you involved in the racing industry ?
?Of course horses can't live forever. But they shouldn't be travelled long distances inc a ferry crossing unnecessarily to be slaughtered either, just to save some £££s. And none of us can work out how it can be cheaper to do it that way either, so there's a lot that is fishy going on.
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Elf On A Shelf
...
This thread has turned into a racing bashing thread when in reality the program was about malpractice in the slaughterhouse. But of course the BBC want the sensational story headlines and "The Dark Side Of Slaughterhouses" doesn't have the same ring as "The Dark Side Of Racing" does it now? The BBC are supposed to be non-biased so in that case they should show the other side of the coin - The Good Side Of Racing. But no one will watch that or get up in arms about it because it is not what they chose to believe. They want to continue to believe that Racing is the enemy.
I am stepping out of this thread completely now.
The last thing I will say is please, please do find which of your local Racing yards are opening their doors in September and go and have a look for yourself.
I am stepping out of this thread completely now.
The last thing I will say is please, please do find which of your local Racing yards are opening their doors in September and go and have a look for yourself.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
Vets don't insist on seeing a passport as they say it isn't their job to police the system, their interest is the welfare of the animal.
In cattle we have to record any medicines given to the animals in the Medicine Book that is inspected by the Farm Assurance people and at any time by Trading Standards and by BPS inspections.
I didn't see the Panorama programme but from what I have read it was definitely a dig at certain high profile people, but mainly on the very poor practices in the particular slaughterhouse, which sound appalling, and some very dodgy, illegal practices concerning the paperwork. As if no-one has learned any lessons from the horsemeat scandal and what must be at the hands of people who are simply after making money, no matter what suffering is caused or how illegal it is. I'm glad they have been found out.
In cattle we have to record any medicines given to the animals in the Medicine Book that is inspected by the Farm Assurance people and at any time by Trading Standards and by BPS inspections.
I didn't see the Panorama programme but from what I have read it was definitely a dig at certain high profile people, but mainly on the very poor practices in the particular slaughterhouse, which sound appalling, and some very dodgy, illegal practices concerning the paperwork. As if no-one has learned any lessons from the horsemeat scandal and what must be at the hands of people who are simply after making money, no matter what suffering is caused or how illegal it is. I'm glad they have been found out.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
Horses do get injured but are we to assume it those don’t get any pain relief just so they can be sold to the meat industry for a few hundred pounds.
What back up is at an abattoir when things go wrong? Presumably they just have another go, the same we a vet at a yard would?
I think most people aren’t so fluffy to think successful horses should live forever, but they should be given a peaceful end, at home where they are relaxed, even if that costs a few hundred pounds. It’s not even the pts (although there’s a whole debate about over breeding), it’s about the lack of respect and cruel method used, such as travelling long distances, waiting a week or more and then some incompetent with a rifle shooting their mate in front of them. I’m shocked if anyone thinks that’s ok.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
You are missing the point. Are you involved in the racing industry ?
Of course horses can't live forever. But they shouldn't be travelled long distances inc a ferry crossing unnecessarily to be slaughtered either, just to save some £££s. .
especially if they are non weightbearing on a leg
those horses were failed on many levels, even if you accept that slaughter is an acceptable end, it must be done correctly.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
Perhaps we should be saying “some” racing yards as yours seems to be well run. I’m sorry you feel that way, but could you just clarify why racehorses aren’t put down at home? Is it just about economics?
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Sorry that you feel like that, EKW. The trouble with open days is that they are, of course, stage managed to show the best side of racing. It's the dark side that ought to concern us.
ETA I have been on a guided tour of Manor House Stables. A fabulous set up, and the horses all looked well.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
totally understand your standpoint.
my takeaway from the programme was all about the slaughter house, and as far as the racing aspect was concerned mostly that some people were either naive or a bit underhand in the way they let horses slip from their hands.
the slaughterhouse is clearly at huge fault and I would prefer the discussion centred on that because that affects more than just racehorses.
However I do think that the huge defensive front that connections of racing mounted yesterday - before the show was aired, and since then, have sort of forced people to look at the industry. it could have been handled differently to put the public gaze more firmly on the treatment of horses sent to abattoirs.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I can hold in mind both slaughter houses and the wider problems in racing/with racing at the same time regardless of any program title.
I think we actually get to see the good side of racing way more than we do any of the issues with it if we are going for the non-biased approach.
I think we actually get to see the good side of racing way more than we do any of the issues with it if we are going for the non-biased approach.
SEL
Well-Known Member
You'd have thought after the Findus Lasagne debacle a few years back the horsemeat / slaughterhouse / controls over horse ID would have tightened up. Obviously not.
Laafet
Well-Known Member
Racehorses are put down at home, in the 20 years of working with all different sorts of Thoroughbred stock from foals to racehorses. All were PTS at home, at the vets, or at the racecourse. In Newmarket, there is a sad truck that collects fallen stock of all kinds not just racehorses, there is a scheme the trainers/stud managers pay into - last time I was involved it was £600 a year and that even covered emergency euthanasia by a qualified stockman for any horses in your care. Absolutely no reason to stick them on a box to Potters. That is cheaper than the cost for a normal riding horse person to have their horse PTS in this area if you get the vet to do it.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
that's totally deflecting from the issue. You have no idea if that guy butes his horses up, you are making that up. The reason most of the horses are a 'challenge' to leisure riders is because they are in pain with kissing spine, SI etc and they have been broken in a way that makes the transition to leisure horse careers a very big leap. It's really clutching at straws to be backing up your argument with the tiny numbers of vet PTS scenarios that go wrong, most vets dispatch with no issues. It's a tiny tiny percentage compared the suffering horses go through at badly run slaughter houses.
Nobody is expecting every racehorse in the world to have an 'all the oats you can eat' retirement in lush paddocks. But they are expecting horses to either be given a good chance at a new life (by being physically and mentally well) or to be PTS humanely and with respect. The fact that you are arguing otherwise is surprising?
Equine_Dream
Well-Known Member
So do the decent thing and shoot them at home. I'm not against horses that can not, for whatever reason, be rehomed, being pts. I am against these animals being carted off to an abbatoir when they could just as easily be shot at home.
Also I've just realised this is the same abbatoir where the 3 little section A colts were sent from the stud last year. I hope these poor babies had a kinder end than the horses shown last night ?
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...tud-delivering-youngstock-to-abattoir.796346/
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
It's because they run them in big flocks and don't have freezing wet winters like we do.
This article is also interesting about how they increased their profitability
https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/liv...from-nz-to-increase-sheep-flock-returns-by-30
.
Equine_Dream
Well-Known Member
I do agree with you that much of the blame here lies with the abbatoir, but I also think the racing industry needs to take some responsibility for where these horses end up. Yes ultimately it is the owners who hold the cards but I also think the racing industry needs to condemn this practice, and condemn it loudly as they did with the Gordon Elliot scandal.
I have also worked with p2p horses. I'm aware how well many horses are treated in the industry. But more care clearly needs to be shown when they are spat out the other side.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Elf On A Shelf, post: 14677200, member: 81440"
The last thing I will say is please, please do find which of your local Racing yards are opening their doors in September and go and have a look for yourself.[/QUOTE]
I totally appreciate since you came on to represent the pro side of racing that you feel totally outnumbered. but I don't get this point. I'd expect to see what I'd expect at any yard - healthy looking horses with good food and bedding and a good quality of life. Even if I arrived at the best racing yard in the world I'd still see horses with physical issues from being broken too young, horses that aren't fitted correctly with saddles, horses with vices from incorrect feeding etc, horses with physical issues from being worked intensively before their bodies have developed. I just don't understand at what stage these horses are treated well? Of course they are fed and groomed and live in nice looking yards, but that's a very low bar to be praising an industry for?
The last thing I will say is please, please do find which of your local Racing yards are opening their doors in September and go and have a look for yourself.[/QUOTE]
I totally appreciate since you came on to represent the pro side of racing that you feel totally outnumbered. but I don't get this point. I'd expect to see what I'd expect at any yard - healthy looking horses with good food and bedding and a good quality of life. Even if I arrived at the best racing yard in the world I'd still see horses with physical issues from being broken too young, horses that aren't fitted correctly with saddles, horses with vices from incorrect feeding etc, horses with physical issues from being worked intensively before their bodies have developed. I just don't understand at what stage these horses are treated well? Of course they are fed and groomed and live in nice looking yards, but that's a very low bar to be praising an industry for?
fankino04
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry that you feel we are all bashing racing, I haven't watched the program as I know I couldn't stomach it but even without people talking about it I have been conflicted about my love of racing for a long time. Everyone accepts that they are started too young, everyone accepts that horses are overbred ( this isn't just racehorses, but a horse that didn't make a 5* eventer will have a better chance of a lower level home than a mentally scarred broken down racehorse). My horse of a lifetime was a 6 year old ex racer, she wasn't ever going to be amazing, raced 3 times at Hexham, placed once, fell the last time, obviously injured from her fall as wouldn't jump again, didn't receive treatment and became incredibly violent ( she broke a farriers leg before coming to me). It was a long road to get her to the amazing horse she became and I'll hold my hands up that the 14 year old I was then wasn't experienced enough for her but luckily I had good people around me and wouldn't give up, if I'd been an adult with other responsibilities would I have persevered? Maybe not, maybe I would have sold her to someone I thought was better for her but could have been horrible or maybe I would have PTS I don't know, I do know she shouldn't have come out of racing like that when a simple vet work up could have got her treated and ready for her new life rather than bullying an in pain horse. When I was 16 I worked in a top 2 year old trainers yard and the treatment of their horses was truly aweful, I thought that was in fact what racing was like until I went to mark Johnstone's yard in middleham when I friend was riding for him and saw how happy his horses are, so I know that there are good yards but there are also bad yards and they aren't policed enough
paddi22
Well-Known Member
I apologise for coming across rant on this thread, but it's so heartbreaking to be on the other side of it dealing with what is ostensibly a 'waste product' of an industry that gets away with turning a blind eye to it and constantly states that they 'love horses'. In a few weeks I'll have to make a call on what exracers can realistically be re-homed. The other sweet beautiful ones will politely follow me onto a box to be PTS by a huntsman because physically or mentally they could not cope with the system that produced them. Charities and rehoming people are left to cover the vets costs and physio costs out of their own pocket, while the owners just buy a fresh new batch to destroy. It is truly heartbreaking. And these are horses that I'm 100% sure were shiny and well fed on a beautiful yard being cared for by grooms who were fond of them. But they still come out the other end with such a slim chance at a good life.
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NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
This thread is really summarising for me why I have an issue with the racing industry. It’s just so wasteful, I really feel these beautiful animals deserve better. If there’s hundreds of thousands of pounds to be spent on buying the horses and training them, the least anyone can do is give them a chance at a second career or a dignified end. Personally I think the whole industry needs a major overhaul but doubt that will ever happen with the amount of money involved.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
that was the most interesting bit but they just kind of left that .
That is clear evidence of fraud .
Jim bob
Well-Known Member
I have a ex race who was passed around a bit from the history I have dug up. However I will say, the trainer was very good. He went out in the field everyday with his friend, when they got him Yes they did back himbut hacked him out for a year so he could grow. So he didn't start racing on the track til he was almost 4. They wanted to find him a good home as he was a yard fave. Sadly he ended up been passed around as he was a young sharp boy who was and still is a worrier. However I have had him for the last 8 years, He was a handful even when I got him. But he got good care as a racehorse. I have bother his breeder and trainer on fb and his trainer even popped to see him recent.