pi@@ed off about ebay & their promise to refund every b@tch out

[Hedgewitch13]

I really don't understand some of the replies on this thread! You have every right to be peed off, I hope you get some joy through the courts. Don't let the buyer get away with it and stay off Ebay! Wouldn't touch the site with a barge pole myself but that's just me

 

[siennamum]

Cripes, I have a good saddle on ebay at the moment. I thought accepting Paypal would protect buyers from scammers who take money without sending the goods. I shall have to be uber careful I think now. I have sold saddles on ebay before with no problem.
I must say some of the replies on here beggar belief, what a sanctimonious, spiteful lot some of you are. Glad I don't know you in real life.

Fingers crossed Op, what a nightmare, like you I could ill afford to lose £400 and tend to assume everyone is decent & honest.

 

[coralwings20]

This links guys 😊 how do I make a claim against her on ebay?

 

[EmmasMummy]

This links guys �� how do I make a claim against her on ebay?

Did she open a dispute? Have you sent ebay the pics and info you have to show that the saddle left you in a good state? Also have you asked her to photograph the ID# for you etc, to make sure it is the same saddle?

 

[coralwings20]

I will post photos of the saddle seen by my saddler and a complete check down & then post her photos. Is there anyway of swapping seriel numbers as sitting here in tears as not got £440 to lose and I find what she did spiteful and nasty - to ruin a saddle that has cleaned each week and stored in my house (no where secure for it in my stables) I can't sleep. Not her fault but I lost even more as only bought it a few months ago for £700.00 as it was immaculate. If anyone wants this buyers name to add to your avoid list, please pm me x

 

[webble]

I will post photos of the saddle seen by my saddler and a complete check down & then post her photos. Is there anyway of swapping seriel numbers as sitting here in tears as not got £440 to lose and I find what she did spiteful and nasty - to ruin a saddle that has cleaned each week and stored in my house (no where secure for it in my stables) I can't sleep. Not her fault but I lost even more as only bought it a few months ago for £700.00 as it was immaculate. If anyone wants this buyers name to add to your avoid list, please pm me x

Its not a Kent and Masters is it? I know they had some problems with a dodgy batch of leather a few years ago. Mine got wet and went a funny colour and the leather kind of bubbled

 

[cronkmooar]

I will post photos of the saddle seen by my saddler and a complete check down & then post her photos. Is there anyway of swapping seriel numbers as sitting here in tears as not got £440 to lose and I find what she did spiteful and nasty - to ruin a saddle that has cleaned each week and stored in my house (no where secure for it in my stables) I can't sleep. Not her fault but I lost even more as only bought it a few months ago for £700.00 as it was immaculate. If anyone wants this buyers name to add to your avoid list, please pm me x

You don't know she did anything spiteful and nasty

Have you contacted the courier firm and lodged a claim?

Have you contacted eBay?

To be honest you are coming across as not wanting to do anything to help yourself

 

[EmmasMummy]

You don't know she did anything spiteful and nasty

Have you contacted the courier firm and lodged a claim?

Have you contacted eBay?

To be honest you are coming across as not wanting to do anything to help yourself

I would have thought she couldn't lodge a claim with courier unless its proven that it was damaged in transit?

 

[cronkmooar]

I would have thought she couldn't lodge a claim with courier unless its proven that it was damaged in transit?

She does not know that the saddle has been deliberately damaged though - she has just taken this line from the start.

Most people who packaged a saddle correctly and sent it off in perfect condition for then to be told it arrived in damaged condition would first think .......... hmmmm what could have happened here? Has it been damaged in transit?

They wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that someone is spiteful, nasty a scammer and has deliberately damaged the saddle because it doesn't fit their horse and they want their money back.

The saddle was listed as available to return, so would you not just return it or sell it on seeing as you are a saddle dealer and could make a good few pounds on it?

You would also contact eBay immediately and put your case, especially when you have been "ebaying for years"

I think the saddle, if it is the same saddle, has been damaged in transit and that would have been my first email/phone call - long before posting on here.

However, with what the OP has posted on here if the courier company see it they will deny all responsibility.

Its not that I don't have sympathy with the OP - but sitting crying is not going to sort this matter out, being proactive might possibly do so!

 

[EmmasMummy]

She does not know that the saddle has been deliberately damaged though - she has just taken this line from the start.

Most people who packaged a saddle correctly and sent it off in perfect condition for then to be told it arrived in damaged condition would first think .......... hmmmm what could have happened here? Has it been damaged in transit?

They wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that someone is spiteful, nasty a scammer and has deliberately damaged the saddle because it doesn't fit their horse and they want their money back.

The saddle was listed as available to return, so would you not just return it or sell it on seeing as you are a saddle dealer and could make a good few pounds on it?

You would also contact eBay immediately and put your case, especially when you have been "ebaying for years"

I think the saddle, if it is the same saddle, has been damaged in transit and that would have been my first email/phone call - long before posting on here.

However, with what the OP has posted on here if the courier company see it they will deny all responsibility.

Its not that I don't have sympathy with the OP - but sitting crying is not going to sort this matter out, being proactive might possibly do so!

That is true....although if I had wrapped something within an inch of its life, and the buyer had accused me of sending a damaged saddle - before even commenting on the packaging etc - I would think that they had done something to it.

If they had said that the box arrived in a state and saddle was damaged I would be inclined to go with that explanation.

Also, and maybe its just me being paranoid, If I buy something off eBay or in fact anywhere and it arrives ripped and re-taped or repackaged by the courier etc, I will take a pic of the box/package BEFORE I open it.

I have had a saddle completely wrapped in bubble wrap and taped uip that has been pissed on by a dog at the yard and it wasnt damaged inside.

I am NOT saying that it wasnt the packaging though.........just that if packaged as stated, that is a LOT better packaging that some big business horsie companies do, then I dont see what, other than total and prolonged submersion in liquid - could damage it to the point its ruined.

Unless..............there was something ON the towel it was wrapped in.......

(and yes.........today is a slow day at work and this is like a murder mystery for me!!)

 

[ester]

I still don't understand how it is for the buyers benefit to damage an item and have to pay return postage for it.

 

[EmmasMummy]

I still don't understand how it is for the buyers benefit to damage an item and have to pay return postage for it.

Someone further back posted an example - 2 saddles the same - - one broken one not. Swap them about saying that the broken saddle is the good one and scam them basically. SO you end up with an expensive saddle, and the refund for said expensive saddle.

Folk have done stranger things...

 

[hairycob]

Me neither. I'm usually quick to spot a scam (the advantage of audit training) but this has me stumped.

 

[webble]

Someone further back posted an example - 2 saddles the same - - one broken one not. Swap them about saying that the broken saddle is the good one and scam them basically. SO you end up with an expensive saddle, and the refund for said expensive saddle.

Folk have done stranger things...

But that wouldnt work here as the saddles have serial numbers on

 

[ester]

^^ this

 

[EmmasMummy]

But that wouldnt work here as the saddles have serial numbers on

This is true...and we do not know if Buyer has provided pic of serial number to seller.


Hopefully OP will be back and post the pics as promised - and has hopefully sent them to eBay as well!

 

[ester]

But buyer knows that OP has serial number for saddle so would get caught out if returning a different one.

 

[Palindrome]

please OP pick yourself up, it's not that much money in the grand scheme of things. Get the saddle back, check the condition and serial number, give full refund as promised if saddle is good and then sell at the price it's worth or find out what happened and don't give refund if saddle has been damaged.
Simple!
You sound like you might have depression or something else is not right, if you are feeling down overall go see your GP.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Did she open a dispute? Have you sent ebay the pics and info you have to show that the saddle left you in a good state? Also have you asked her to photograph the ID# for you etc, to make sure it is the same saddle?

This is your next step OP if you receive a damaged saddle back. You defend her paypal dispute putting all facts, photos and your side of the story on there. Scan in a pic of the saddlers report too, if you can or take a photo of it or something. Often nothing is considered in these disputes other than what is shown/written in the dispute process, so give as much information and evidence as possible.

The buyer should post the saddle back by a trackable posting method to be sure it is delivered to you.

ETA the saddle dealer comment - its speculation. I have bought and in the past sold many saddles on eBay. If you'd looked at my feedback about 80% of my eBay activity was saddles. Sometimes whilst browsing I saw an absolute bargain and thought I could make a quick profit on that. But mostly I had different horses regularly and sold the saddles when they changed shape through youngsters growing up or horses getting really old, or because they'd lost or gained weight. Any that I found really comfy to ride in I kept, but most were sold when they'd served their purpose. It doesn't make me a saddle dealer, for the most part I was selling off personal items (saddles) which I no longer needed.

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

OP, ebay doesn't always side with the buyer you know... I use it regulary to sell (low value) items. I was selling some shoes about 8 months ago. I stated they were a size 6 and the brand, I said I didn't accept returns and buyers buy at their own risk. Buyer won them for £16, plus £4 postage.

Buyer contacted me asking if she could return the shoes and I said no, I don't accept returns. I presumed they didn't fit. So she went about it from a different angle and claimed they were damaged (which doesn't matter if you state you don't accept returns or not). She then opened a case against me claiming the shoes were damaged. she provided a photo of the shoes, with a big scuff on one side of one of them. She had cleverly taken the photo from the only angle I hadn't provided a photo of on the orgional listing.

I, like you, had photos of the shoes (from all angles) before I placed them on ebay. I responded to the case and provided my photos as proof, along with an explantion that the shoes were free from marks and damage when I listed them. I have 100% feedback on my ebay too, as a seller as well as a buyer. Ebay sided with me and she was told the case was closed - she was not to get a refund, return and was not allowed to leave me feedback.

Think you need to open a case with ebay yourself. Don't just persume they'll side with her - ebay do their best to protect everyone, no matter if you're the buyer or the seller - they listen and take into account the whole story and the facts.

I do have to agree with the others though in that your post has come across very aggressive. If you want ebay to side with you, you will have to put forward a professional, calm and factual account - not name calling and tantrum throwing. I know you're angry but you won't get anywhere unless you fight your corner factfully.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

please OP pick yourself up, it's not that much money in the grand scheme of things. Get the saddle back, check the condition and serial number, give full refund as promised if saddle is good and then sell at the price it's worth or find out what happened and don't give refund if saddle has been damaged.
Simple!
You sound like you might have depression or something else is not right, if you are feeling down overall go see your GP.

I hate to sound rude here but you've clearly never been truly skint. Losing that amount of money really can be the end of the world to a skint person. We don't know the OPs personal circunstances. In the past I've sold stuff to pay the rent and would not have been able to pay back a few hundred pounds at a rate of one pound a week, never mind find it immediately.

ETA its not up to OP if she refunds or not, paypal will decide whether to believe buyer or seller based on no more than the info given during the dispute process. It is entirely possible that paypal would force seller to refund even if saddle has been deliberately damaged. They have done such things in the past to people. They don't carry out additional investigations, just listen to both sides of the story and decide who they believe.

 

[bakewell]

As a scenario. Buyer receives saddle which is damaged (possibly through transit). They open a case as it's not a simple refund given the item has clearly suffered damage. That's not them being a scammer; it's perfectly reasonable.
If they didn't want the saddle a straight forward refund is posted as one of the conditions of sale. They could merely return it for a full refund. Again, totally reasonable.

Incidentally, either way the buyer will still be out of pocket for the return of the saddle by paypal's requirements that they send it tracked at their own expense.

I realise the first post was made in haste and perhaps anger, and that sometimes text does not do justice to subtleties of speech. Having said that, if I were the buyer, and either of the scenarios I outlined applied, I would be absolutely livid should this thread come to light. And there is ample information to identify the transaction. The OP makes some fairly libelous statements if that is the case. As the buyer I would copy the thread to paypal in my dispute. Paypal take abusive communication seriously in their assessments.
Likewise offering to disseminate the buyers name so that others may avoid her is a bit off before an impartial assessment by paypal.

OP I understand that sometimes tight finances can have a cumulative effect on the shortness of patience, and I have surely made some stupid decisions I regret myself where money is concerned. However I think you need to try and set aside any emotion when dealing with this issue if you are to have any hope of a positive outcome. I also think you need to consider what you want to happen in a best case scenario.

Buyer keeps saddle, positive feedback for everyone and you keep the money is not looking at all likely and you need to accept that with good grace.

As others have said it may be that the best chance of compensation for what looks to now be a useless saddle is through the courier company. For this to happen you will need the assistance of your buyer. So put your feelings to one side and rebuild that bridge.

If you genuinely feel, when the dust has settled that you have been scammed, and you have clear evidence to support this you then have the right to pursue the buyer for fraud.

 

[Palindrome]

I hate to sound rude here but you've clearly never been truly skint. Losing that amount of money really can be the end of the world to a skint person. We don't know the OPs personal circunstances. In the past I've sold stuff to pay the rent and would not have been able to pay back a few hundred pounds at a rate of one pound a week, never mind find it immediately.

ETA its not up to OP if she refunds or not, paypal will decide whether to believe buyer or seller based on no more than the info given during the dispute process. It is entirely possible that paypal would force seller to refund even if saddle has been deliberately damaged. They have done such things in the past to people. They don't carry out additional investigations, just listen to both sides of the story and decide who they believe.

I guess yes and no, I have been skint to the point of having to eat only ramen noodles for a week ($1 buys you a big pack of them in the US) but didn't have a horse or any dependent then fortunately and had just the money to pay the rent. But OP doesn't have to give the money now and hasn't even seen the saddle yet.

 

[ester]

I have to say usually as a buyer if the photos show a black coloured looked after saddle and it turned up not looking black it would be usual to open a not as described case and the seller could then take it up with the courier with their proof photos - and photos of the box it arrive in if possible.

 

[EmmasMummy]

OP, ebay doesn't always side with the buyer you know... I use it regulary to sell (low value) items. I was selling some shoes about 8 months ago. I stated they were a size 6 and the brand, I said I didn't accept returns and buyers buy at their own risk. Buyer won them for £16, plus £4 postage.

Buyer contacted me asking if she could return the shoes and I said no, I don't accept returns. I presumed they didn't fit. So she went about it from a different angle and claimed they were damaged (which doesn't matter if you state you don't accept returns or not). She then opened a case against me claiming the shoes were damaged. she provided a photo of the shoes, with a big scuff on one side of one of them. She had cleverly taken the photo from the only angle I hadn't provided a photo of on the orgional listing.

I, like you, had photos of the shoes (from all angles) before I placed them on ebay. I responded to the case and provided my photos as proof, along with an explantion that the shoes were free from marks and damage when I listed them. I have 100% feedback on my ebay too, as a seller as well as a buyer. Ebay sided with me and she was told the case was closed - she was not to get a refund, return and was not allowed to leave me feedback.

Think you need to open a case with ebay yourself. Don't just persume they'll side with her - ebay do their best to protect everyone, no matter if you're the buyer or the seller - they listen and take into account the whole story and the facts.

I do have to agree with the others though in that your post has come across very aggressive. If you want ebay to side with you, you will have to put forward a professional, calm and factual account - not name calling and tantrum throwing. I know you're angry but you won't get anywhere unless you fight your corner factfully.

OH had something similar when selling his gun parts..guy claimed no delivery - Oh was like "It was sent by recorded delivery and I have your signature - SEE" so the guy kept coming back with different excuses each time and OH sent the proof the guy was at it - pics of the specs when he said it was wrong part, pics of the condition when the guy said it was broken (and couldn't provide pics of said broken part). He kept pushing the case out and out and as he hadnt paid OH was out of pocket....guy wanted refund AND to keep part. OH spoke to eBay and when they reviewed everything they took the money from the guy some how and gave to OH, and the guy got a strike or something and wasnt allowed to leave feedback - but OH could leave for the buyer!

 

[AmieeT]

OP, I've just read all the way through this post- and you haven't replied to the questions asking if you've contacted eBay- Have you?

I know that you have put that you except returns, but if she HAS damaged it like you suspect, then CONTACT THEM!!

If you suspect that a buyer is abusing the managed returns process, contact them through Messages in My eBay (to keep a record of the conversation) and try to resolve the issue. If you still suspect buyer abuse, report a returns issue to us through the Returns section of My eBay.

Possibly contact PayPal too- they have phonelines and from experience, I know them to be very helpful. Explain the situation, and that you have a saddler report proving it to be as described.

Ax

 

[fatpiggy]

I feel really sorry for the OP, it is potentially alot of money to lose. I don't have a horse any more so am quids in,but I would still baulk at losing that much. Let's see what the buyer comes up with first. I am a regular Ebayer but only as a buyer and have never had any problems, plus as I collect alot of the time, I've met some of the the sellers and they have all been really nice people. But looking at various forums including this one, Ebay does attract some very dishonest people from the horse world and I'm afraid I wouldn't ever sell anything worth more than £50 on it that was horse related. I have some lovely rugs to sell (I bought rugs from Ebay previously, no problem at all) but am just not prepared to take the risk with Ebay. I'd actually rather donate them to a local sanctuary than have some slimeball get their paws on them dishonestly. Sad but true. OP take a deep breath and have a plan B ready if the buyer does seem to be trying it on. I'd be surprised if they actually damaged the saddle out of spite though, simply because it is true that Ebay may well find in their favour (it usually seems to unfortunately) and then they have something of no real value, which you are probably right and doesn't fit their horse. Don't forget that a saddler can sort out many problems.

 

[Queenbee]

But that wouldnt work here as the saddles have serial numbers on

No, I agree, it was me who posted that example, it was purely to explain how a scam could work, but before op confirmed it had a serial number.

OP i fully sympathise that this is very distressing, but the bottom line is that the saddle is damaged... by who is not exactly the issue at this point. what I would be doing first is the following:

1: requesting seller to describe the state of the packaging upon reciept, was it delivered, did the courier leave it outside somewhere it could have been rained on???
2. Getting in touch with ebay, explain your concerns, that it could have been damaged in transit, that it may be the purchaser, that you are not going back on your refund terms but that you would like some time to investigate first.
3. get in touch with oz, creme de menthe, ask for a reputable saddler in the purchasers area, ask the seller to take the saddle to the saddler for a professional appraisal and confirmation of the serial number (explain this to ebay).
Once you have that, then you can start to make accusations, with a factual base. at the moment, you are blaming the purchaser, you blamed her even before you saw pics... you have no idea who or what caused this damage as yet.


And yes, a very good point, why would someone buy a saddle, ruin it just because it didnt fit and return for a refund when they would have to pay postage? it does not add up. there is more to this than meets the eye and to get some resolution you need to dig a little, not into sellers background but into the state of saddle. Until a saddler had confirmed that serial number I would not accept the return... if they confirm it, I would be wanting to establish the state of the packaging, if damaged... take the courier on, if not, go to ebay about the purchaser.

 

[ester]

Fwiw I also think you should be polite when conversing with the buyer about this, they could well be just as upset at having spent £400 on a saddle that isn't what they expected and completely not to blame.

 

[RaposadeGengibre]

I still don't understand how it is for the buyers benefit to damage an item and have to pay return postage for it.

If the item not as described, the seller pays for return postage now.