The SNP and Mrs Nicola Sturgeon

[Judgemental]

It's going away in the form it's in .
The Supreme Court ruled it was unlawful.
It's bad idea because it imposes on perfectly competent parents a system that interferes in their rights to parent their child as they wish .
The state sought to foist a busybody into that family with no thought as to if the parents wish it .
Most parents can bring up their kids perfectly well without the state meddling .

Quite and that busybody will be a recruiting officer for the SNP, as all the necessary papers are completed over tea and Dundee cake - of course, a tick box form will be surreptitiously slipped across the table to the child, to become a junior member of the SNP.

With promises that if they are a member, they can go to the SNP's jolly camp in the summer on the loch, where the Frau Fuehrer will visit and indoctrinate the children, with her version of MacKampf. Where the children can practice their Heil Fives with the 'Frau Fuehrer'.

This whole abominable scheme is reminiscence of that which is found in Mein Kampf!

 

[Judgemental]

It's going away in the form it's in .
The Supreme Court ruled it was unlawful.
It's bad idea because it imposes on perfectly competent parents a system that interferes in their rights to parent their child as they wish .
The state sought to foist a busybody into that family with no thought as to if the parents wish it .
Most parents can bring up their kids perfectly well without the state meddling .

Duplicate deleted

 

[Buddy'sMum]

It's going away in the form it's in .
The Supreme Court ruled it was unlawful.
It's bad idea because it imposes on perfectly competent parents a system that interferes in their rights to parent their child as they wish .
The state sought to foist a busybody into that family with no thought as to if the parents wish it .
Most parents can bring up their kids perfectly well without the state meddling .

The Supreme Court ruled parts of it were unlawful while commenting that the aim of the scheme was "unquestionably legitimate and benign". The Scottish government is holding talks with relevant parties to rework the parts considered by the Supreme Court to be unlawful but it has confirmed that the policy will still be implemented once those changes have been made.

Again, if it's so heinous, why does it have the support of the leading child welfare bodies and associations in Scotland?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

The Supreme Court ruled parts of it were unlawful while commenting that the aim of the scheme was "unquestionably legitimate and benign". The Scottish government is holding talks with relevant parties to rework the parts considered by the Supreme Court to be unlawful but it has confirmed that the policy will still be implemented once those changes have been made.

Again, if it's so heinous, why does it have the support of the leading child welfare bodies and associations in Scotland?

now now, don't let the truth stand in the way of a good story

I was against it in principle as well when I heard about it, although I've yet to find a political party that I agree with on everything. A pilot of this scheme has been running in the Highlands for ten years I think? Spokesman for Barnardos on the telly the other day, said it had been very successful.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Young-People/gettingitright/about-named-person

of course, fat lot of good posting actual information does on this thread but hey ho.

 

[Goldenstar]

The Supreme Court ruled parts of it were unlawful while commenting that the aim of the scheme was "unquestionably legitimate and benign". The Scottish government is holding talks with relevant parties to rework the parts considered by the Supreme Court to be unlawful but it has confirmed that the policy will still be implemented once those changes have been made.

Again, if it's so heinous, why does it have the support of the leading child welfare bodies and associations in Scotland?

Because they are professional busy bodies who spend their time intervening in the lives of the feckless and disadvantaged .
If you spend your life in that world long enough you forget that most people can manage their affairs without their invention .

I am confused as to how they are going to find these people who on earth would want to do this .

 

[Alec Swan]

Quite and that busybody will be a recruiting officer for the SNP, as all the necessary papers are completed over tea and Dundee cake - of course, a tick box form will be surreptitiously slipped across the table to the child, to become a junior member of the SNP.

With promises that if they are a member, they can go to the SNP's jolly camp in the summer on the loch, where the Frau Fuehrer will visit and indoctrinate the children, with her version of MacKampf. Where the children can practice their Heil Fives with the 'Frau Fuehrer'.

This whole abominable scheme is reminiscence of that which is found in Mein Kampf!

J_m, a smiley or two, dotted about may assure others that you aren't being 'entirely' serious!

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

Aberlour Childcare Trust
Action for Children
Alliance for Children’s Rights
……..
Children 1st
Children in Scotland
One Parent Families Scotland
Quarriers
……..
Scottish Alliance for Children’s Rights
Scottish Childminding Association
……..
Scottish Secondary Teachers Association

Considering your list above and which I've edited, would it not be an idea for all the splinter groups to form together under one banner and present a united front? I feel sure it would be to greater effect.

Alec.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Because they are professional busy bodies who spend their time intervening in the lives of the feckless and disadvantaged .
If you spend your life in that world long enough you forget that most people can manage their affairs without their invention .

there have been some very high profile abuse/negelct cases up here of late. always when it happens, people ask why something/more isn't done. Not saying I agree with this how it stands but what else would you suggest?

 

[Goldenstar]

there have been some very high profile abuse/negelct cases up here of late. always when it happens, people ask why something/more isn't done. Not saying I agree with this how it stands but what else would you suggest?

Well how do you suppose these named person are going to operate when children under the care of social workers are not safe from evil parents .
These named persons what are they going to held responsible for ? we see what happens when social workers get it wrong but what role is this named person going to take when things go wrong .
Do they risk being pilloried like social workers are .
Whose going to train this army of family snoops because you surely have to train these people for what is a new role in society ,who is going to oversee them and whose going to protect parents when some over zealous nut gets their teeth into a family whose lifestyle choices they don't like .
And why would any one wish to it it's a vast number of people that will be needed to find them check them and train them will cost a fortune a fortune that would be better spent directly on family's that social services pick up .
I often see teachers mentained as suitable people but IMO they have enough to as it is .
And how many children is it envisaged that these people look after because if it lots it becomes a box ticking exercise and if it's few finding and appointing them ,checking them and training would be a enormous task .
For what ? Most taxpayers raise their kids without needing this sort of assistance .

 

[JDee]

Just amazes me that when something awful happens to a child/children there's a huge outcry that not enough is done to monitor situations and too much goes un noticed because no one cares until it's too late (sadly often the case) and when something is done to try to correct the situation there's a similarly huge outcry of 'too much intrusion'
You can't have it both ways - and dismissing an idea just because the political party that thought of it isn't one that you love to bits is rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't it?

 

[Goldenstar]

Just amazes me that when something awful happens to a child/children there's a huge outcry that not enough is done to monitor situations and too much goes un noticed because no one cares until it's too late (sadly often the case) and when something is done to try to correct the situation there's a similarly huge outcry of 'too much intrusion'
You can't have it both ways - and dismissing an idea just because the political party that thought of it isn't one that you love to bits is rather like cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't it?

You can have it both ways you accept that things go wrong and you address errors partcularily when those paid by the state have failed in their duty .
But if a child is murdered it's the fault of the person who does it .
You won't ever hear me saying more should be done it's more that what we are already paying for the state to do should be done well .
If professional trained social worksers can't protect every children at risk what is this army of named people going to achieve.
You probably could protect every child from its parents but I for one would think a too gross intrusion into most peoples freedom to raise their children in relative privacy.

 

[Buddy'sMum]

So that's the SNP in the frame .

ps the named person scheme comes from Getting it Right for Every Child (GIRFEC), which as MOC has already pointed out, was trialled with great success in the Highland GIRFEC Pathfinder under the Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition

 

[Alec Swan]

ps the named person scheme comes from Getting it Right for Every Child (GIRFEC), which as MOC has already pointed out, was trialled with great success in the Highland GIRFEC Pathfinder under the Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition

Do we remember the catastrophic efforts of Dr Marietta Higgs?

Official and 'blanket' treatment of children has never worked and it never will.

Alec.

 

[Goldenstar]

ps the named person scheme comes from Getting it Right for Every Child (GIRFEC), which as MOC has already pointed out, was trialled with great success in the Highland GIRFEC Pathfinder under the Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition

So what I think it's an gross intrusion of parents civil liberies .
I don't care if the angel Gabriel thought it up ,it's just plain wrong , the state is getting out of control when they think they have the right to impose things like that .

 

[Judgemental]

The headlines are never ending.


"She's betrayed Scots' Nicola Sturgeon blasted for OBSESSION with independence and EU

NICOLA Sturgeon has been accused of risking tearing apart the Scottish Parliament with her independence obsession.

By KATIE MANSFIELD
PUBLISHED: 17:32, Mon, Aug 1, 2016 | UPDATED: 20:39, Mon, Aug 1, 2016

Nicola Sturgeon is betraying all those who took her at her word when she said the vote in parliament was not about independence
Willie Rennie"

""The First Minister is at risk of breaking her mandate from the Scottish Parliament to look at all options.

"She is risking the accusation that she is trying to fool us with talk of other options when the clear trajectory is her party’s dream of another independence referendum."

I am sure those who post here in favor of the SNP are well meaning but sadly, they are being misled and as Wliiie Rennie indicates, you are being fooled and that goes for every other heading, including this scheme involving children.

 

[Goldenstar]

The headlines are never ending.


"She's betrayed Scots' Nicola Sturgeon blasted for OBSESSION with independence and EU

NICOLA Sturgeon has been accused of risking tearing apart the Scottish Parliament with her independence obsession.

By KATIE MANSFIELD
PUBLISHED: 17:32, Mon, Aug 1, 2016 | UPDATED: 20:39, Mon, Aug 1, 2016

Nicola Sturgeon is betraying all those who took her at her word when she said the vote in parliament was not about independence
Willie Rennie"

I am sure those who post in favor of the SNP are well meaning but sadly they are being misled.

You really don't admire her don't you .
Don't worry it will soon be Autumn and you will more to take your mind off her .

 

[Judgemental]

You really don't admire her don't you .
Don't worry it will soon be Autumn and you will more to take your mind off her .

I merely follow the quotes in the press and I felt that the fact Willie Rennie who sits in the Scottish Parliament says she has misled them and as I like to put it, welched on her word, to her own people. This is a very serious situation for the UK as a whole.

Well yes, I suppose we will be Hind Hunting but what with, can't put the whole pack on.

We have a right to remedy the matter and that could be easily achieved if the SNP kept their noses out of our affairs.

Plainly they don't like us poking our noses into Scots affairs and all their failings over, Trident, Independence, EU, Children thing. So the answer is leave us alone and we will leave them alone, it's that simple.

Until I see a vote that uses the Statutory Instrument attached to the Hunting Act 2004, to the satisfaction of hunting generally, I will post ad infinitum on this forum and thread, so long as the Fat Controller permits.

 

[Goldenstar]

I merely follow the quotes in the press and I felt that the fact Willie Rennie who sits in the Scottish Parliament says she has misled them and as I like to put it, welched on her word, to her own people. This is a very serious situation for the UK as a whole.

Well yes, I suppose we will be Hind Hunting but what with, can't put the whole pack on.

We have a right to remedy the matter and that could be easily achieved if the SNP kept their noses out of our affairs.

Plainly they don't like us poking our noses into Scots affairs and all their failings over, Trident, Independence, EU, Children thing. So the answer is leave us alone and we will leave them alone, it's that simple.

Until I see a vote that uses the Statutory Instrument attached to the Hunting Act 2004, to the satisfaction of hunting generally, I will post ad infinitum on this forum and thread, so long as the Fat Controller permits.

Enjoy yourself .
Your not rude , I see no reason why TFC should trouble you .

 

[JDee]

I don't think that the proposed bill is likely to follow the lines of Marietta Higgs and Co. but I would imagine that the statistics are telling them that what they're doing now is clearly not working so something has to be done
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/scotland/statistics/
I worked with Social Services for a while some years ago and the time that it took to get enough evidence to remove a child that was suspected of being abused in her own home was distressing to all involved. I don't know what the finished bill will look like but if it can help these children the intrusion will be worth it

 

[Alec Swan]

I don't think that the proposed bill is likely to follow the lines of Marietta Higgs and Co. but I would imagine that the statistics are telling them that what they're doing now is clearly not working so something has to be done
……..

Whilst there obviously won't be a repeat of the Higgs & Co episode, there are clearly times when authority listens to 'experts' who have the ability to make matters worse.

With the level of deprivation which so often envelopes those who are in poverty, so children will always suffer and though not always by intent, it's certainly the end result. When we see the level of city development which is designed to brighten the present and the future I sometimes wonder if enough attention is paid to the 'hearts' of these communities.

Working on the basis that charity really should begin at home, I wonder how our parliamentarian benefactors square the £billions that we spend on wars with the fact that we continue to have a deep seated level of poverty, a poverty which goes deeper than bricks and mortar and slides and swings and playgrounds.

Alec.

 

[hackneylass2]

'You and I both know one never crosses hunting folk and expect to get away with it.'

Well, after reading that, one thinks that J is a 16 year old, who, when he gets away from is PC, is bumbling about on a fat Welsh pony which is adorned with a tight flash and desperately hoping that his rider will get with the program and try the forward seat! Fnarr fnarr!

 

[Judgemental]

One does not want to appear obsessive but it really is in the best interests to warn the people of Scotland...........'dream' being the operative word.

"Sturgeon’s dream of independent Scotland in TATTERS as nation’s OIL CURSE continues

NICOLA Sturgeon’s hopes of an independent Scotland are looking increasingly unlikely as the country continues to suffer from a devastating oil slump.

By JOEY MILLAR
PUBLISHED: 09:04, Tue, Aug 9, 2016 | UPDATED: 11:28, Tue, Aug 9, 2016

Sturgeon has repeatedly ignored Scotland's economic downturn in her quest for independence
After promising the nation was strong enough to go alone and break from the United Kingdom, critics have mocked Ms Sturgeon following the country’s sharp economic downturn.

One expert even said Scotland would be “staring at the abyss” if the population had voted for independence in the 2014 referendum.

Declining oil prices have led to huge job losses and the decline of towns like Aberdeen, which was once called ‘Europe’s Oil Capital’ ".

 

[Alec Swan]

Assuming that you're right J_M, what now for Scotland? Is it not time for Westminster to stand-up and face-up our responsibilities and to promote growth and self reliance for Scotland, instead of wasting countless millions on the wars which are none of our concern?

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

Assuming that you're right J_M, what now for Scotland? Is it not time for Westminster to stand-up and face-up our responsibilities and to promote growth and self reliance for Scotland, instead of wasting countless millions on the wars which are none of our concern?

Alec.

That is a very big question Alec. United we stand and divided we fall.

I feel that such as the dramatic reduction on VAT for fuel will cause the Scots to see which side their bread is buttered.

The number of farmers who have said, that they voted Leave because they did not feel comfortable with clerks in Brussels effectively running their farming, is quite remarkable.

Also they hope that farm Subsidies are targeted according to need. Certainly agriculture in Scotland would be an overall beneficiary.

Frankly I cannot see what the attraction is for Scotland to be run from Brussels.

Of course the Scottish Fishing Industry will be a nett beneficiary (no puns intended)

Many hope that the whole thing will go by the old name of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

Oil is dead in the water so, all the existing industries have to receive patriotic support and Barnett Consequential has to be enhanced.

 

[Alec Swan]

Though I admire those who will take the side of Scotland and the Scots, I have grave misgivings over the efficacy of Mrs Sturgeon. Militancy is rarely the way, though I'm not sure of a suitable alternative, just yet. Perhaps Independence would have been the way forward, after all.

In the unseemly rush to accept the handouts, I fear that it's been a form of prostitution. I fear for the land of my forefathers, over the next 20 years.

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

Though I admire those who will take the side of Scotland and the Scots, I have grave misgivings over the efficacy of Mrs Sturgeon. Militancy is rarely the way, though I'm not sure of a suitable alternative, just yet. Perhaps Independence would have been the way forward, after all.

In the unseemly rush to accept the handouts, I fear that it's been a form of prostitution. I fear for the land of my forefathers, over the next 20 years.

Alec.

I think the issue of VAT will be very persuasive.

Assuming the promise is kept to reduce VAT on all household fuel, if we voted to Leave the EU, in my opinion Mrs May is on a Win Win tragetrory. Bear in mind it was Boris' idea and I have no doubt he will see the promise is kept.

Furthermore, I believe reductions in VAT will be targeted.

I don't think folk generally or the City have really woken up to just how powerful the VAT card is as dare I say, a fiscal bribe.

Indeed it would not surprise me to see the Chancellor grasp the nettle and start the VAT reductions in his Autumn Budget, irrespective of whether or not Article 50 has been triggered. Frankly who cares and what can the EU do, they don''t have any of our assets or money.

Hopefully the Treasury have in event stopped paying Brussels.

Right minded Scots will say, if we are in the EU we have to pay sky high VAT, if we are out, that nice Mrs May is Lady Bountiful.

That will sink any notion of Independence.

No I feel and from what my agricultural friends in Scotland are saying, there is a mood of co-operation and friendly unity from the Scot's populations as a whole. Something Sturgeon needs to heed.

 

[fburton]

The govt could lower VAT from 20% to 15% right now if it wanted - and could do so even if we stayed in the EU. Indeed, under the rules, VAT on domestic fuel could be lowered to 5% while we are still a member. Do you think Mrs May plans to reduce VAT on fuel to less than 5%?

 

[Goldenstar]

The govt could lower VAT from 20% to 15% right now if it wanted - and could do so even if we stayed in the EU. Indeed, under the rules, VAT on domestic fuel could be lowered to 5% while we are still a member. Do you think Mrs May plans to reduce VAT on fuel to less than 5%?

Is it not already 5% on domestic fuel ?

 

[ycbm]

The govt could lower VAT from 20% to 15% right now if it wanted - and could do so even if we stayed in the EU. Indeed, under the rules, VAT on domestic fuel could be lowered to 5% while we are still a member. Do you think Mrs May plans to reduce VAT on fuel to less than 5%?

Only for now. The EU want to standardise taxation across member States, starting I think with VAT and corporation tax.

There are already controls. Britain wants to remove VAT from essential female sanitary products but we are not allowed to.

VAT is already 5% on domestic and small business fuel.

 

[Judgemental]

The fact the Prime Minister has said that money will be paid to folk disadvantaged by Fracking and the Chancellor has announced that agricultural subsidies will be paid by the UK government, in future, to replace those paid by the EU but to be targeted on disadvantaged areas.

Clearly Mrs May's small punt on Fracking, is indicative of how she can be SELECTIVE in order to keep folk happy.

That position unties the hands of the Treasury and DEFRA, allowing the government to 'incentivise' such as the Scots to become 'loved up' to the rest of the UK.

All sorts of VAT perambulations could be introduced, so that any sensible Scot will very soon realise that Lady Bountiful May and Happy Hammond, will have the former's best interests at heart. Which would not be the attitude of Brussels at 20% across the board.

Goodness home heating VAT in Scotland could go down to zero!