Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Mrs May is no fool and she will have an eye to her electorate putting vat on domestic fuel to zero in Scotland is as likely as NS joined UKIP .
The SNP and Mrs Nicola Sturgeon
- Thread starter Judgemental
- Start date
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Perhaps my wording was erroneous. What I am saying is that VAT and many other taxes are DICTATED (set in stone) by Brussels and the Scots people will realise, that that they are best off being part of the UK, where such a home heating fuel VAT can be tailored by the Chancellor, according to need or any perceived disadvantaged area.
Remember that: DISADVANTAGED AREAS, it will be writ large in many spheres in the next four years.
No doubt a whole range of fiscal packages will be sculpted, to gain maximum voting power for the Conservative Party in Scotland and elsewhere.
It would not surprise me to see the SNP's numbers in the House of Commons reduced by 50% at the next election. If agriculture, fishing, shipbuilding and heavy engineering become favored. Scots are very canny and will realise that they need to shake the hand that feeds them. Along with warmly embracing Barnett Consequential.
Let's be frank, this has never happened before, i.e Brexit and it gives the government of the day a wholly unique blank canvass, to frame policies to their greatest advantage.
madmav
Well-Known Member
I'm mystified by Scotland's desire to free themselves of the rule of uk government and yet is desperate to remain within the rule of EU. I speak as someone who passionately wanted the Remain vote to win and as an advocate of a strong UK.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Hungary having recently increased VAT to 27 per cent it will not be long before 'other countries follow suit' and bring the EU average close to that of Scandinavia's average of 24.3 per cent.
'Currently' I accept, but individual states remain free to set their own VAT rate. That said, I suspect that the UK Brexit question has rather clipped the wings of those in Brussels and they're (again 'currently') not pushing their luck! There are other nations who are teetering on the edge of an exit.
Alec.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Sturgeon warned by UK it's 'crystal clear' she cannot influence Brexit after German junket
NICOLA Sturgeon has been told in "crystal clear" detail she has no mandate to influence Britain's exit from the EU following her trip to Germany this week.
By SIOBHAN MCFADYEN, EXCLUSIVE
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Aug 14, 2016
Nicola Sturgeon has been told she will not negotiate in Brexit plansGETTY
Nicola Sturgeon has been told she will not negotiate in Brexit plans
The SNP leader, 46, spent taxpayer's money on the ineffective trip to meet the deputy foreign minister of Germany on Tuesday.
But her plan to woo support seems like it will have zero baring on what happens when the UK government invokes Article 50.
While the Foreign Office says it will do everything in its power to help protect the interests of Scotland - Miss Sturgeon will not be responsible for direct negotiations.
An FCO spokesman said: “Under the devolution settlement, it is crystal clear that the UK Government is responsible for international relations and the foreign policy of the United Kingdom, including treaties and the relationship with the European Union.
"As we start the process of leaving the EU, we will work closely with the Scottish Government and get the best possible deal for all parts of our United Kingdom.”
RELATED ARTICLES
SNP told to act NOW over tax 'time bomb' as Scotland faces recession
Humiliation for Sturgeon as her dad loses by-election seat in counc...
Ms Sturgeon paid lip service to Luxembourgish politician Jean-Claude Juncker GETTY
Ms Sturgeon met Luxembourgish politician Jean-Claude Juncker
Just days after the Brexit vote on June 23, Ms Sturgeon staged a high-profile visit to an EU summit in the hope of holding talks with Brussels chiefs over retaining Scotland’s EU membership, in defiance of the UK referendum result.
But her visit which began with a visit with Luxembourgish politician and EU president Jean-Claude Juncker ended in humiliation after she was pointedly snubbed by European Council president Donald Tusk and both France and Spain shot down her plans to directly negotiate a way for Scotland to remain part of the bloc.
Under international law Scotland is not a recognised country and therefore cannot negotiate for itself outside of its union with the United Kingdom without achieving independence, a concept that the majority of the Scottish population does not want.
Ms Sturgeon had time to joke with Mr Juncker following the referendum GETTY
Ms Sturgeon had time to joke with Mr Juncker following the referendum
It is crystal clear that the UK Government is responsible for international relations and the foreign policy of the United Kingdom
An FCO Spokesperson
British politicians from councils and devolved parliaments like Wales and Northern Ireland are allowed to travel to countries to discuss issues.
Usually these trips are facilitated by diplomats however Ms Sturgeon is believed to be attempting her own variation of protocols in her recent jaunts.
A source said: "There is an agreement which sets how the devolved administrations may interact with the EU and international bodies.
Theresa May flew to Scotland after becoming PMGETTY
Theresa May flew to Scotland after becoming PM
"Whilst the Foreign Office may assist with providing support, any costs incurred are charged back to the devolved administrations."
The comments from the Foreign Office come after the First Minister was left embarrassed after it was revealed her recent attempts to chair a meeting of EU consuls in Edinburgh was a shambles.
Ms Sturgeon and ministers Angela Constance and Fiona Hyslop in the Scottish Government apparently posed for photos during their summit of EU consuls following the allegedly 'high level' talks.
But it was later revealed that the people invited had little power and weren't diplomats but individuals with honorary titles.
Indeed one of those was in fact a rat catcher from the town of Paisley, Renfrewshire situated 11 miles outside Glasgow.
The rat catcher, aka Scottish man Iain Lawson, was the 'honorary consul' for Estonia who became fascinated with the country when he visited with the Tartan Army two decades ago
NICOLA Sturgeon has been told in "crystal clear" detail she has no mandate to influence Britain's exit from the EU following her trip to Germany this week.
By SIOBHAN MCFADYEN, EXCLUSIVE
PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Aug 14, 2016
Nicola Sturgeon has been told she will not negotiate in Brexit plansGETTY
Nicola Sturgeon has been told she will not negotiate in Brexit plans
The SNP leader, 46, spent taxpayer's money on the ineffective trip to meet the deputy foreign minister of Germany on Tuesday.
But her plan to woo support seems like it will have zero baring on what happens when the UK government invokes Article 50.
While the Foreign Office says it will do everything in its power to help protect the interests of Scotland - Miss Sturgeon will not be responsible for direct negotiations.
An FCO spokesman said: “Under the devolution settlement, it is crystal clear that the UK Government is responsible for international relations and the foreign policy of the United Kingdom, including treaties and the relationship with the European Union.
"As we start the process of leaving the EU, we will work closely with the Scottish Government and get the best possible deal for all parts of our United Kingdom.”
RELATED ARTICLES
SNP told to act NOW over tax 'time bomb' as Scotland faces recession
Humiliation for Sturgeon as her dad loses by-election seat in counc...
Ms Sturgeon paid lip service to Luxembourgish politician Jean-Claude Juncker GETTY
Ms Sturgeon met Luxembourgish politician Jean-Claude Juncker
Just days after the Brexit vote on June 23, Ms Sturgeon staged a high-profile visit to an EU summit in the hope of holding talks with Brussels chiefs over retaining Scotland’s EU membership, in defiance of the UK referendum result.
But her visit which began with a visit with Luxembourgish politician and EU president Jean-Claude Juncker ended in humiliation after she was pointedly snubbed by European Council president Donald Tusk and both France and Spain shot down her plans to directly negotiate a way for Scotland to remain part of the bloc.
Under international law Scotland is not a recognised country and therefore cannot negotiate for itself outside of its union with the United Kingdom without achieving independence, a concept that the majority of the Scottish population does not want.
Ms Sturgeon had time to joke with Mr Juncker following the referendum GETTY
Ms Sturgeon had time to joke with Mr Juncker following the referendum
It is crystal clear that the UK Government is responsible for international relations and the foreign policy of the United Kingdom
An FCO Spokesperson
British politicians from councils and devolved parliaments like Wales and Northern Ireland are allowed to travel to countries to discuss issues.
Usually these trips are facilitated by diplomats however Ms Sturgeon is believed to be attempting her own variation of protocols in her recent jaunts.
A source said: "There is an agreement which sets how the devolved administrations may interact with the EU and international bodies.
Theresa May flew to Scotland after becoming PMGETTY
Theresa May flew to Scotland after becoming PM
"Whilst the Foreign Office may assist with providing support, any costs incurred are charged back to the devolved administrations."
The comments from the Foreign Office come after the First Minister was left embarrassed after it was revealed her recent attempts to chair a meeting of EU consuls in Edinburgh was a shambles.
Ms Sturgeon and ministers Angela Constance and Fiona Hyslop in the Scottish Government apparently posed for photos during their summit of EU consuls following the allegedly 'high level' talks.
But it was later revealed that the people invited had little power and weren't diplomats but individuals with honorary titles.
Indeed one of those was in fact a rat catcher from the town of Paisley, Renfrewshire situated 11 miles outside Glasgow.
The rat catcher, aka Scottish man Iain Lawson, was the 'honorary consul' for Estonia who became fascinated with the country when he visited with the Tartan Army two decades ago
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
This was a meeting of EU consuls general on July 5 to discuss how to reassure EU citizens living in Scotland that they are welcome in the country.
The meeting included some honorary consuls as well as several with official functions. Honorary consuls - like Mr Lawson - have day jobs.
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Yes well, it's rather obvious Sturgeon and her cronies are making Scotland look very foolish.
The Scots are extremely fine people and do not need all this ridiculous posturing and and second, nay third rate, attempts to try and be some sort of 'world stateswoman'.
Go back to Irvine and worry about rubbish collection perhaps.
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I can't see how the Scottish Government's attempts to reassure EU nationals currently living, working and studying in Scotland that they will be welcome to remain in the country is posturing or "making Scotland look very foolish."
I do, however, believe that Mrs May's position of "I may or may not decide to kick all EU nationals out of the UK" is making Mrs May look very foolish.
I do, however, believe that Mrs May's position of "I may or may not decide to kick all EU nationals out of the UK" is making Mrs May look very foolish.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Do you , personally I would rather Mrs May had her eye on how British passport holders are treated by the EU before offering a blanket right to remain to all those here from the rest of the EU.
Quid pro quo is the name of the game .
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
To answer these comments I am going to recount an interesting conversation I had recently in pub in Devon with a gentleman called George.
George is Devonian through and through and about 70. Everything is said with a strong and at times difficult to understand, Devonian Burr. Some who are politically correct would call it a regional accent.
I said, "can I buy you a drink". "ah ee can and I tell ee suumut".
So I got the drinks sat down with George, he took a sip and looked knowingly at me, paused and said "I voted" and sat back in his chair with something of a triumphal flourish and satisfaction.
"I see" I said, "you mean the referendum". "Ah that be it, I voted and the Misses and the Maid (Unmarried 35 old daughter) never voted in my life before".
"So what stirred you up to do that" I enquired. "ah twer, pause, twer they vurreners (foreigners)".
"too many" said George, "it be all wrong and they politicos in Luunnon, what do them know".
Then he produced from his pocket a little red coaster which he had picked up in a Wetherspoons Pub.
Depicting Osborne and Madam Lagarde of the IMF and mentioning Dominic Stauss-Kahn her predecessor. Osborne having been literally sacked by Mrs May. Lagarde now facing a criminal indictment in Paris and Khan in disgrace for fiddling with a chamber maid in a New York Hotel.
George was waving this at me and the fact he had it clearly made him something of an authority on the IMF, the former chancellor of the Exchequer, bearing in mind the boss of Wetherspoons had distributed 500k to all his pubs denigrating the EU and the aforementioned persons.
"ah" said George, "what do any of 'em know". "Thic Canada chap", For a moment I wondered who he meant and George said, "the bank fellow". "Oh you mean The Governor of the Bank of England". "Ah that be ee" said George. "what do ee know, comes from Canada telling us we are going bust" said with contemptuous snort. "ah an thic President (Obama) what do ee know, tellin us ow to vote, the bu..er".
"There be be too many vurreners".
After which the conversation happily turned to the deer up on the moor.
George is Devonian through and through and about 70. Everything is said with a strong and at times difficult to understand, Devonian Burr. Some who are politically correct would call it a regional accent.
I said, "can I buy you a drink". "ah ee can and I tell ee suumut".
So I got the drinks sat down with George, he took a sip and looked knowingly at me, paused and said "I voted" and sat back in his chair with something of a triumphal flourish and satisfaction.
"I see" I said, "you mean the referendum". "Ah that be it, I voted and the Misses and the Maid (Unmarried 35 old daughter) never voted in my life before".
"So what stirred you up to do that" I enquired. "ah twer, pause, twer they vurreners (foreigners)".
"too many" said George, "it be all wrong and they politicos in Luunnon, what do them know".
Then he produced from his pocket a little red coaster which he had picked up in a Wetherspoons Pub.
Depicting Osborne and Madam Lagarde of the IMF and mentioning Dominic Stauss-Kahn her predecessor. Osborne having been literally sacked by Mrs May. Lagarde now facing a criminal indictment in Paris and Khan in disgrace for fiddling with a chamber maid in a New York Hotel.
George was waving this at me and the fact he had it clearly made him something of an authority on the IMF, the former chancellor of the Exchequer, bearing in mind the boss of Wetherspoons had distributed 500k to all his pubs denigrating the EU and the aforementioned persons.
"ah" said George, "what do any of 'em know". "Thic Canada chap", For a moment I wondered who he meant and George said, "the bank fellow". "Oh you mean The Governor of the Bank of England". "Ah that be ee" said George. "what do ee know, comes from Canada telling us we are going bust" said with contemptuous snort. "ah an thic President (Obama) what do ee know, tellin us ow to vote, the bu..er".
"There be be too many vurreners".
After which the conversation happily turned to the deer up on the moor.
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Sturgeon's EU slum: Squalor, filth and sex crime in constituency branded SHAME OF SCOTLAND
FIRST Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon’s very own constituency has become a haven for illegal immigration and organised crime where women cannot walk the streets, it has been claimed.
By SIOBHAN MCFADYEN
PUBLISHED: 13:59, Sun, Aug 21, 2016 | UPDATED: 14:45, Sun, Aug 21, 2016
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/70...ime-in-constituency-branded-shame-of-Scotland
FIRST Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon’s very own constituency has become a haven for illegal immigration and organised crime where women cannot walk the streets, it has been claimed.
By SIOBHAN MCFADYEN
PUBLISHED: 13:59, Sun, Aug 21, 2016 | UPDATED: 14:45, Sun, Aug 21, 2016
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/70...ime-in-constituency-branded-shame-of-Scotland
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
More Sturgeon bashing baloney from the Daily Express. Starting to get really boring, Judgemental.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...in__Here_s_20_things_to_love_about_Govanhill/
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/watch-govanhill-primary-pupils-hit-7949209
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/14325355.Govanhill_cops___We_will_overturn_the_fear_of_crime_/
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Judgemental
Well-Known Member
You betcha.
The lady defaulted on a agreement English Votes and English laws.
It is very boring that a full pack of hounds cannot move the large herds of deer off the small farms, the West Country.
Yes it will get even more boring, the lady cannot even run her own constituency
When Robertson stand up in the House of Commons and formally agrees, to English Votes for English laws and they will not interfere with any future government moves to amend the Hunting Act 2004, I will cease and desist.
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
Well, seeing as her constituents voted overwhelmingly to keep her as the MSP for Glasgow Southside in May's elections, it seems they think she's doing OK.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
When this sort of person will not publish their expenses it speaks volumes as to their integrity.
"NICOLA Sturgeon's government has rejected a request to publish details of how much her taxpayer funded EU junkets are costing the UK taxpayer".
"By SIOBHAN MCFADYEN
PUBLISHED: 17:38, Fri, Aug 26, 2016 | UPDATED: 20:01, Fri, Aug 26, 2016
Ms Sturgeon has been travelling to lay out her position on the EUGETTY
Ms Sturgeon has been travelling to lay out her position on the EU
And the Scottish Government is six months behind publishing up to date information on how they are spending their devolved £33billion budget.
Ms Sturgeon, 46, has been travelling across Europe without a mandate to negotiate since the results of the EU referendum in June.
She has travelled to Germany and Brussels to hold talks with EU leaders at the expense of the British public.
She has also spent time in London trying to rally support as well as holding talks in Edinburgh at a cost to the taxpayer.
RELATED ARTICLES
Sturgeon’s referendum plans, SHATTERED as Scotland nearly £15bn in red
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Ms Sturgeon is coming under scrutiny over the spending of public money GETTY
Ms Sturgeon is coming under scrutiny over the spending of public money
However, Holyrood has rejected a Freedom of Information request from a member of the public to outline the costs of the trips".
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/70...-to-publish-costs-on-taxpayer-funded-EU-trips
"NICOLA Sturgeon's government has rejected a request to publish details of how much her taxpayer funded EU junkets are costing the UK taxpayer".
"By SIOBHAN MCFADYEN
PUBLISHED: 17:38, Fri, Aug 26, 2016 | UPDATED: 20:01, Fri, Aug 26, 2016
Ms Sturgeon has been travelling to lay out her position on the EUGETTY
Ms Sturgeon has been travelling to lay out her position on the EU
And the Scottish Government is six months behind publishing up to date information on how they are spending their devolved £33billion budget.
Ms Sturgeon, 46, has been travelling across Europe without a mandate to negotiate since the results of the EU referendum in June.
She has travelled to Germany and Brussels to hold talks with EU leaders at the expense of the British public.
She has also spent time in London trying to rally support as well as holding talks in Edinburgh at a cost to the taxpayer.
RELATED ARTICLES
Sturgeon’s referendum plans, SHATTERED as Scotland nearly £15bn in red
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon appoints OWN Brexit minister
Ms Sturgeon is coming under scrutiny over the spending of public money GETTY
Ms Sturgeon is coming under scrutiny over the spending of public money
However, Holyrood has rejected a Freedom of Information request from a member of the public to outline the costs of the trips".
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/70...-to-publish-costs-on-taxpayer-funded-EU-trips
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Whilst I'm no more a fan of the lady in question than you are JM, a part of her duties are to represent Scotland and the SNP. Just as she should demonstrate a responsibility for the funding which she uses, to suggest that she should be limited in her legitimate travel expenses cannot be right.
So; Just why the SNP and their leader refuse to publish their expenses, fails to demonstrate a sense of transparency I agree, but to refuse her the right to explore her ambitions, is equally wrong. To date, it seems, her overtures to Brussels have met with a wall, so perhaps she's beginning to see the futility of her grand and master plan. Dunno, but I still can't stand the woman!
Alec.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Whilst I'm no more a fan of the lady in question than you are JM, a part of her duties are to represent Scotland and the SNP. Just as she should demonstrate a responsibility for the funding which she uses, to suggest that she should be limited in her legitimate travel expenses cannot be right.
So; Just why the SNP and their leader refuse to publish their expenses, fails to demonstrate a sense of transparency I agree, but to refuse her the right to explore her ambitions, is equally wrong. To date, it seems, her overtures to Brussels have met with a wall, so perhaps she's beginning to see the futility of her grand and master plan. Dunno, but I still can't stand the woman!
Alec.
Alec there comes a point when very serious questions have to be asked about somebody in public office, who is constantly showing up in the media as apparently acting in their own interests, at the expense of state funding.
Yet again she had drawn unfavorable comment in relation to taxing of serving military. I wonder if this has something to do with Rosyth and Trident.
"Sturgeon branded anti-Armed Forces as Scot troops face tax bill FOUR TIMES that in England
EXCLUSIVE: NICOLA Sturgeon has been accused of being anti British Armed Forces after failing to stop Scottish soldiers receiving hefty tax bills which dont apply to troops living south of the border.
By TOM BATCHELOR
PUBLISHED: 12:00, Sat, Aug 27, 2016 | UPDATED: 13:13, Sat, Aug 27, 2016
SoldiersGETTYIG
Troops in Scotland face paying up to four times as much council tax
Troops in Scotland face paying up to four times as much council tax as those living in England and Wales because of discrepancies in how council tax is calculated.
Some are even being sent letters from sheriff officers threatening to freeze bank accounts and send out bailiffs if the money isnt paid, according to ex-Royal Marine John McGlinchey.
Serving and retired servicemen and women in most parts of the UK are eligible for a 50 per cent discount on the council tax for their family home when they are stationed abroad or in barracks elsewhere in the country".
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/70...bill-four-times-higher-than-troops-in-England
Sturgeon and her people actively interfered with the Hunting Act 2004. We must never lose sight of that and never let up from commenting on this thread, until she and the SNP agree to English Votes for English Laws.
Hunting folk have taken far far too much sh.t from far too many quarters and it is time, such people and anybody who takes an interest in our dialouge, are left in no doubt that will find themselves the subject comment.
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Irish gal
Well-Known Member
This thread isn't about hunting it's about Scottish independence and how much it terrifies those south of the border. It actually makes funny reading! Why are so many of the same posters so vociferously against the very notion of independence, and constant posting to that effEct - because it will leave them as a small bit player in world affairs - which they can't countenance, apparently.
At this juncture I just want to say - Go Scotland! You will make a great little European nation. As an outsider this thread just raises a wry smile. Poster after poster is telling you why it's impossible. As the rest of us enjoyed a chuckle as we took in the newly elected Theresa May literally race for the border - ask yourself why was she running so hard after just being elected - to tell the Scottish people they couldn't possibly have another referendum!?
It's blindingly obvious. In the same way that all the naysayers are quite transparent. Their agenda is quite straightforward. What will happen to Great Britain without Scotland - it will cease to exist. That's why they can't countenance it.
Do you know that the world is watching and that there are a world of possibilities. Some here are talking about a Celtic alliance. We speak the same language after all, and No I don't mean English! Scots Gaelic and Irish are just about Interchangeable, we have a shared history that precedes your current incarnation
Independence of itself is a currency! I have had fantastic holidays in Scotalnd but have always felt a residual sadness that the country is not independent. Scotland has everything it takes to be very successful, and if it becomes independent, it will be so much more appealing.
That's been our experience here in Ireland. There are lots of people who identify with small nations, who rise above and shake off colonisers. You mightn't credit it but they come here in their droves. I've often been fairly gobsmacked in pubs in Dublin tourist areas to watch Dutch, German and French people singing along to Irish rebel songs, they don't miss a beat, or get a word wrong, they know them by heart! Perhaps it's because everyone loves an underdog, or perhaps it's just because we all have an innate sense of justice
At this juncture I just want to say - Go Scotland! You will make a great little European nation. As an outsider this thread just raises a wry smile. Poster after poster is telling you why it's impossible. As the rest of us enjoyed a chuckle as we took in the newly elected Theresa May literally race for the border - ask yourself why was she running so hard after just being elected - to tell the Scottish people they couldn't possibly have another referendum!?
It's blindingly obvious. In the same way that all the naysayers are quite transparent. Their agenda is quite straightforward. What will happen to Great Britain without Scotland - it will cease to exist. That's why they can't countenance it.
Do you know that the world is watching and that there are a world of possibilities. Some here are talking about a Celtic alliance. We speak the same language after all, and No I don't mean English! Scots Gaelic and Irish are just about Interchangeable, we have a shared history that precedes your current incarnation
Independence of itself is a currency! I have had fantastic holidays in Scotalnd but have always felt a residual sadness that the country is not independent. Scotland has everything it takes to be very successful, and if it becomes independent, it will be so much more appealing.
That's been our experience here in Ireland. There are lots of people who identify with small nations, who rise above and shake off colonisers. You mightn't credit it but they come here in their droves. I've often been fairly gobsmacked in pubs in Dublin tourist areas to watch Dutch, German and French people singing along to Irish rebel songs, they don't miss a beat, or get a word wrong, they know them by heart! Perhaps it's because everyone loves an underdog, or perhaps it's just because we all have an innate sense of justice
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popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Why would Scottish independence terrify us south of the border. I along with several others say bring it on and then we can stop subsidising all the extras they get that are not available this side of the border . A report out last week showed again that the economy in Scotland is not sustainable as it is without assistance from south of the border.
Lizzie66
Well-Known Member
Agree with this. The Scottish had a referendum that the then leader of the SNP said was a once in a generation opportunity. The Scottish decided that they wanted to remain as part of the United Kingdom. We have been joined for over 300 years and have shared a monarch for over 400 years. In some sporting competitions we compete as England Scotland Ireland Wales in others as team GB. We are both politically and in sporting terms stronger as team UK (GB arguably doesn't include NI) and to me its like family, we may bicker a lot between ourselves but ultimately we will stand together against others.
It is a shame that the EU didn't offer genuine reform prior to the vote as I think 90% of the British people would want to stay in a truly reformed EU and this is what the government of the UK offered to Scotland. What I can't understand is that the SNP is fervently pro EU and anti UK when its level of power and choice is greater within the UK than it would be within the EU as an independent nation.
Irish gal
Well-Known Member
That's interesting about subsidising Scotland Popsdosh. I must say that the following makes fairly compelling reading, it certainly got me thinking. Since people south of the border aren't bothered about a Scottish departure, I wonder why they campaigned so hard last time. Poor David Cameron fairly wore himself out, even raising the Saltire over no. 10.
Still it doesn't have quite the same power as it would flying over a Soverign parliament in an independent nation - it's just not quite the same thing.
Still it doesn't have quite the same power as it would flying over a Soverign parliament in an independent nation - it's just not quite the same thing.
Irish gal
Well-Known Member
Is that right Lizzie, seriously, do you compete as England Scotland Ireland Wales? Do you know that Ireland left the UK almost 100 years ago, or did you just blank out that unpalatable fact?? Let's face it there's a lot of blanking out going on on this thread so nothing would surprise me
We were part of the U.K for a long time too, under British rule for 700 years and it didn't stop us going. A bit like Scotland really, they kept telling us we'd never manage on our own. But you know what, once the country was under our own control we did just fine.
The world is full of small nations, like ourselves, think of luxembourg, Belgium, New Zealand(small population) and they're doing very well. And I've no doubt that Scotland would do equally as well - if we can do it, they can do it.
There's fantastic tourism potential, the Highlands have to be one the most beautiful places in Europe. Huge eco tourism potential there, especially if proposals to re-wild it go ahead.
Edinburgh is the ideal alternative financial hub for companies looking to trade into Europe, in an independent Scotland in the EU. There could be huge opportunities.
Where are you getting this idea that the EU has more control over people than their own governments. I'm in an EU state and it has very little impact on my life. An independent Scotland is not about to be swallowed up by the dastardly empire you are painting a picture of - it doesn't exist - except of course on the pages of British newspapers!
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Another view of the subsidy of Scotland by England
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nd-to-get-billions-of-English-income-tax.html
I understand that a lot of historical figures for oil revenue were worked out on the basis that Scotland owned all the oil around it in the North sea. Apparently, international convention is that an oilfield is divided up by continuing the land border between the two countries out at the same angle into the sea. If you do that, then not all that oil was Scots anyway.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nd-to-get-billions-of-English-income-tax.html
I understand that a lot of historical figures for oil revenue were worked out on the basis that Scotland owned all the oil around it in the North sea. Apparently, international convention is that an oilfield is divided up by continuing the land border between the two countries out at the same angle into the sea. If you do that, then not all that oil was Scots anyway.
Lizzie66
Well-Known Member
Is that right Lizzie, seriously, do you compete as England Scotland Ireland Wales? Do you know that Ireland left the UK almost 100 years ago, or did you just blank out that unpalatable fact?? Let's face it there's a lot of blanking out going on on this thread so nothing would surprise me
Before you jump on your high horse and get sarcastic the answer is yes, because generally speaking when we compete as our separate nations then Northern Ireland & Eire frequently join together to compete as a united Ireland, so what I said does hold true.
Lizzie66
Well-Known Member
Where are you getting the idea that I dislike the EU ? I don't - I think it has faults and I think there has been too much power transferred to Brussels from the individual nations (this is a view that has been expressed by many EU nations recently). I think it unfortunate that the EU didn't offer up hope of real reform before our referendum as with genuine reform I think the result would have been different. Germany and France are very pro further integration and full political union which will largely result in the individual nations having less control over their policies and laws.
The issue is that we have a city the size of Dublin effectively moving into the UK every 2 years, the people per se aren't the problem, if there is work for them then they are more than welcome. The problem is that we aren't building houses that fast, nor expanding our schools that fast or our health service so house process go up to the point where our young people can't afford them (rent is higher than a mortgage), our class sizes are growing and despite more money going into the NHS the service level is falling as there just aren't enough medical staff. If you were allowed to restrict numbers (even temporarily) to allow the infrastructure to catch up then this would help, but the EU doesn't allow for this. I personally found the campaign for the remain to be too negative, there are many wonderful things about the EU and largely I believe the positives outweigh the negatives, however I can understand why people voted as they did.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Your post really surprises me. I can't believe that you believe that the EU doesn't control every aspect of your life. What I can believe though is that you simply don't care, and that is an entirely different matter. Your apparent acceptance of central control with a one-rule-fits-all which has grown beyond belief, may well suit you as a person, but it is stifling the ability of individual nations to show initiative and expand.
Far too many form an opinion around what actually effects them as individuals, rather than considering their nation as a whole and I'm wondering if you're amongst them.
Alec.
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Yes Alec and Irish gal has conveniently forgotten the huge amount of bail out their country had to receive to survive a self inflicted economic catastrophe all brought about by membership of this wonderful institution. Something Scotland would have to protect itself from seeing ,as with comrade NS running the show they would never balance the books. A lot north of the border need to accept that without the Barnett formula and its generous settlement for Scotland the SNP would not have the ability to give you so much or indeed survive. In times of difficulty they may wish they still had their mate just over the border if you dont believe me ask the Greeks about austerity measures imposed by the EU
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Irish Gal has also forgotten that a lot of the Irish recovery from that crash, Popsdosh, has come about by lowering their rate of Corporation Tax, something which the EU is currently working on banning individual countries from doing.
Irish gal
Well-Known Member
When NI and Ireland compete together it's for Ireland, which is not part of team GB as you made out in your first response to me. It's all there in black and white, and anybody with even the most rudimentary grasp of English can read it.
Irish gal
Well-Known Member
Will you take another read of that Alec. I've read it a few times and it seems the second paragraph just contradicts the first one, with the result that one cancels the other out, so I don't know what you are saying.