Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Defence , yes that should be a priority
The SNP and Mrs Nicola Sturgeon
- Thread starter Judgemental
- Start date
Defence , yes that should be a priority
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
In that case, with only a million in poverty Scotland should easily afford 2%! Defence really is a priority.
fburton
Well-Known Member
Although I'm no fan of Gordon Brown, I find his "third option" quite attractive and consider it worthy of consideration. It would give Scotland a better chance of achieving/assuming "fiscal responsibility".
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I think that is because as part of one of the big bailouts, the Germans insisted they buy two submarines that they didn't need? OH told me that, shoot him if it's wrong.
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
You mean the faulty German submarines?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Well there are more than two, apparently, none of which have ever sailed. But the earlier ones go back before bailouts. Greece has always, apparently, liked spending on defence. And France and Germany were very happy to take their money, only to later accuse them of profligate spending.
ozpoz
Well-Known Member
No one in Scotland will ever trust Gordon Brown's proclamations again. We are not that daft, the man has become a figure of fun here.
Some of the comments on this thread illuminate exactly why Scotland's people realise that as a nation their ideals and viewpoints are far ,far away from anything coming from Westminster. It will all help to speed things up, so carry on! : )
We have to choose, once we are free from the lies and cognitive (or wilful) dissonance from the tory party, whether it will be the EU or Scandinavian nations we join. Our past has long ties with both.
Of course Faslane will go south too. You're welcome.
Some of the comments on this thread illuminate exactly why Scotland's people realise that as a nation their ideals and viewpoints are far ,far away from anything coming from Westminster. It will all help to speed things up, so carry on! : )
We have to choose, once we are free from the lies and cognitive (or wilful) dissonance from the tory party, whether it will be the EU or Scandinavian nations we join. Our past has long ties with both.
Of course Faslane will go south too. You're welcome.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I don't know whether to laugh or cry that you think the cognitive dissonance is lower in the EU than in the Tory Party.
Can you explain what you mean by 'join' the Scandinavian nations? Norway isn't in the EU but pays for market access and has freedom of movement. Sweden is in but has a growing movement on both sides of their political divide calling for leaving. And as far as I know, there is nothing you can actually join with?
As for joining the EU, are you aware of the depth of austerity that the EU will require for you to balance your budget in order to join? It will make the Tory Party look like a Tea Party.
I have many happy memories of Faslane. My father was one of the first officers to serve there, at a time when the Scots in the area were very happy to have us and the jobs it brought.
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ozpoz
Well-Known Member
I can't explain the word "join' any more that just that - Join. If you can access news that is not generated by Murdoch, you'll discover that there are more options and overtures being reported on, and available to Scotland. Don't wait for Theresa May to include these in any press statements though.
I also have links to Faslane, with family submariners and RN.
I am well aware of the history and it is just that, history. Now I am more concerned about the future of my grandchildren. Do you know Trident is there for the convenience of the US and not the UK? At an obscene cost, I may add. Are you confident there is a safe pair of hands at the helm?
I'm not and I don't know anyone who is.
I also have links to Faslane, with family submariners and RN.
I am well aware of the history and it is just that, history. Now I am more concerned about the future of my grandchildren. Do you know Trident is there for the convenience of the US and not the UK? At an obscene cost, I may add. Are you confident there is a safe pair of hands at the helm?
I'm not and I don't know anyone who is.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
If you can't explain what you mean then I'm inclined to stick with my current belief, which is that the options you dream of do not exist.
Am I confident that no Western idiot is going to fire off an ICBM at Putin and that Putin is not going to nuke Faslane? Yes, it's not called M.A.D. for nothing.
Fred66
Well-Known Member
I think before the next Scottish independence referendum the deal should be negotiated and then everyone knows what they are voting for
fburton
Well-Known Member
It's not a proclamation or a promise, though, is it? It's just a suggestion, and one which someone else - TM presumably - would have to take up based on her judgement in the (unlikely?) event of a second referendum. I would still be in favour of the suggestion if it came from another politician.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Can we take a straw poll of our Scots brethren.....
1. Will there ever be a referendum on Scottish independence?
2. If there were were a referendum would a majority of the Scottish people vote for independence?
3. On a % basis how many of the Scottish people are fed up with the issue of Scottish independence and by implication Ms Sturgeon?
1. Will there ever be a referendum on Scottish independence?
2. If there were were a referendum would a majority of the Scottish people vote for independence?
3. On a % basis how many of the Scottish people are fed up with the issue of Scottish independence and by implication Ms Sturgeon?
ROG
Well-Known Member
http://whatscotlandthinks.org/quest...independence-referendum-if-held-now-ask#table
37% YES - FOR INDY
48% NO - STAY UK
SNP must think they can turn that around !
37% YES - FOR INDY
48% NO - STAY UK
SNP must think they can turn that around !
Isbister
Well-Known Member
Apparently the Scottish economy is slipping into recession, not helped by the SNP's policies. Clearly they wish to kick up a hoo-hah about a referendum as a smokescreen to divert attention from their misrule.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Certainly that is the substance of all reports concerning the economy and Sturgeon, especially as the Oil and Gas has little or no value.
My experience of all things and people Scottish is that they are all most sensible and cautious.
Why the people of Scotland are prepared to put up with Sturgeon and the way she is making fools of the everybody is a mystery.
JDee
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that many of them are putting up with her or at least not as many as there were if those opinion poll figures are anything to go by. Is support for her and independence just another of those cases where a few people can make a lot of noise and sound like a big crowd?
ozpoz
Well-Known Member
The oil and gas has little or no value!!!! : D
On which planet?
I have seen another poll where the pro Indy voters are at 62%.
Seriously Judgemental, you are kidding yourself.
On which planet?
I have seen another poll where the pro Indy voters are at 62%.
Seriously Judgemental, you are kidding yourself.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Whatever the value, she ain't getting a sniff of the Oil because it's in British territorial waters.
Silly little girl who is still running her 6th Form debates at Holyrood.
'It BELONGS to US!' Tory MP issues HANDS OFF warning to Sturgeon over North Sea oil
NICOLA STURGEON has been dealt a killer blow to her Scottish independence dreams after being told to keep her hands off the United Kingdom’s North Sea oil.
By JOE BARNES
PUBLISHED: 17:01, Wed, Apr 12, 2017 | UPDATED: 18:23, Wed, Apr 12, 2017
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/79...n-North-Sea-oil-warning-Scottish-Independence
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Is it me or am I missing something ,the press does not appear to be giving her the coverage they were or maybe she has done what she was told to do by RD ie 'Sit down and shut up'.
Maybe the reality is sinking in that she has misjudged the Scottish peoples stomach for another referendum as it was so transparent she was using it as a threat to get what she wanted ,although those she was threatening already knew it was an idle threat.
I really hope that the people of Scotland do realise we are better off together and I cannot help but think that to some degree her grandstanding has been to do with keeping their concentration away from the real issues that are starting to effect Scotland and I guess will all be blamed on Brexit rather than the true culprits.
Maybe the reality is sinking in that she has misjudged the Scottish peoples stomach for another referendum as it was so transparent she was using it as a threat to get what she wanted ,although those she was threatening already knew it was an idle threat.
I really hope that the people of Scotland do realise we are better off together and I cannot help but think that to some degree her grandstanding has been to do with keeping their concentration away from the real issues that are starting to effect Scotland and I guess will all be blamed on Brexit rather than the true culprits.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
In the Press yesterday. Public spending per head in the rest of the UK 8,800 , in Scotland 10,500. Scotland's economy teetering on the brink of recession. I'm warming to Nicola more every day.
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
Also in the news yesterday - Scotland's unemployment rate is the lowest in the UK:
https://stv.tv/amp/1385657-scottish-unemployment-rate-drops-to-lowest-in-the-uk/
I'm warming to Nicola more every day too
popsdosh
Well-Known Member
Also in the news yesterday - Scotland's unemployment rate is the lowest in the UK:
https://stv.tv/amp/1385657-scottish-unemployment-rate-drops-to-lowest-in-the-uk/
I'm warming to Nicola more every day too
Maybe they are all moving to England!
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Make no mistake about it, if Scotland achieves independence, it will be a scorched earth policy. You will be left standing in your kilts and nothing else. We will even have your Sporrans.
No fishing, oil revenue or handouts from the likes of Barnett Consequential.
The grass is always greener. It will be like being cast adrift in an open boat. When you meet the Pirates, i.e the EU, they will rape and pillage the bloom of Scotland's youth taking huge membership fees, assuming they will have Scotland as a member. Not a subject that sits well with the Spanish in respect of the Catalan question.
No, go and 'sleep with' the EU and don't be surprised if you find them fickle and disloyal.
No fishing, oil revenue or handouts from the likes of Barnett Consequential.
The grass is always greener. It will be like being cast adrift in an open boat. When you meet the Pirates, i.e the EU, they will rape and pillage the bloom of Scotland's youth taking huge membership fees, assuming they will have Scotland as a member. Not a subject that sits well with the Spanish in respect of the Catalan question.
No, go and 'sleep with' the EU and don't be surprised if you find them fickle and disloyal.
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
Err, didn't you claim in your previous post that North Sea oil and gas has "little or no revenue"?
Now, Scotland "ain't getting a sniff" of it?
Do make your mind up, sweetie.
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Also in the news yesterday - Scotland's unemployment rate is the lowest in the UK:
https://stv.tv/amp/1385657-scottish-unemployment-rate-drops-to-lowest-in-the-uk/
I'm warming to Nicola more every day too
I'll swap you all the Scots who work in England for all the English who work in Scotland
Oh, and you can take your share of the 1 in 7 EU migrants who haven't got a job, too.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Also in the news yesterday - Scotland's unemployment rate is the lowest in the UK:
https://stv.tv/amp/1385657-scottish-unemployment-rate-drops-to-lowest-in-the-uk/
I'm warming to Nicola more every day too
Excellent time to stop that extra money per head and pout it into poorer areas in England and Wales and NI .
alainax
Well-Known Member
The OP Judgemental is actually a bit scary, sounds like an anti Scottish extremeist! I'd actually be concerned for their MH when Scotland does become independent!
You claim that the oil fields have no value, yet also that Scotland is not allowed to have them when we become independent.
Let's look at it anothe way. Let's work out for the past 50 years how much revenue the English government has taken from Scotland, and how much pocket money they have gave back to us. What ever the difference is, is either what England owes Scotland upon independence or what Scotland owes England on independence. Sound fair?
Sure it will be extremely complicated to work out as things like income tax, corpy tax, vat, oil revenue, fisharie, renewables, whiskey revenue, etc etc are not or have not always been devolved so they count towards the " U.K." Figures and not scotlands own figures. But I am sure there are people out there smart enough to genuinely work out the total figures. Current figures banded around have a huge chunk of genuine Scottish income allocated to "U.K."
The trouble is some English see Scottish as the sponging child. But imagine living in a country, remember Scotland is a country not an English county, when the big country next door takes all of your revenue, doesn't give you exact devolved figures, then gives you pocket money back. Imagine having every single county in your country vote for the exact same thing, then be given the polar opposite. Imagine your whole country voting one way on a huge political step, and being g forced the other way, just because the big country next door says so.
Imagine it's France, England must give all it's money to France, France will give you a be back but won't tel you with 100% accuracy how much money there is in total generated in your country from all of your assets, exports etc. They will give you s figure, but will count a huge chunk of your income as "joint" so your income looks less than it is. England votes in overwhelming majority for conservative government in every single county. France doesn't, votes far left so tough **** England, you must have a far left government controlling your from Paris. England votes to leave the eu, France votes that England can't leave the eu, again, tough **** England your vote is absolutely meaningless. France makes Lots of rules and finicial decisions which benefit only France, and are extreme detriment to England. But tough ****, you are a union. fair right?
You claim that the oil fields have no value, yet also that Scotland is not allowed to have them when we become independent.
Let's look at it anothe way. Let's work out for the past 50 years how much revenue the English government has taken from Scotland, and how much pocket money they have gave back to us. What ever the difference is, is either what England owes Scotland upon independence or what Scotland owes England on independence. Sound fair?
Sure it will be extremely complicated to work out as things like income tax, corpy tax, vat, oil revenue, fisharie, renewables, whiskey revenue, etc etc are not or have not always been devolved so they count towards the " U.K." Figures and not scotlands own figures. But I am sure there are people out there smart enough to genuinely work out the total figures. Current figures banded around have a huge chunk of genuine Scottish income allocated to "U.K."
The trouble is some English see Scottish as the sponging child. But imagine living in a country, remember Scotland is a country not an English county, when the big country next door takes all of your revenue, doesn't give you exact devolved figures, then gives you pocket money back. Imagine having every single county in your country vote for the exact same thing, then be given the polar opposite. Imagine your whole country voting one way on a huge political step, and being g forced the other way, just because the big country next door says so.
Imagine it's France, England must give all it's money to France, France will give you a be back but won't tel you with 100% accuracy how much money there is in total generated in your country from all of your assets, exports etc. They will give you s figure, but will count a huge chunk of your income as "joint" so your income looks less than it is. England votes in overwhelming majority for conservative government in every single county. France doesn't, votes far left so tough **** England, you must have a far left government controlling your from Paris. England votes to leave the eu, France votes that England can't leave the eu, again, tough **** England your vote is absolutely meaningless. France makes Lots of rules and finicial decisions which benefit only France, and are extreme detriment to England. But tough ****, you are a union. fair right?
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ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I've pointed this pointed this out before, and I'll do it every time a Scot makes these claims about all the oil we've stolen from them.
When Scotland works out how much oil money they have 'given' England, they draw a line directly out from the point where the border ends into the sea.
The international convention on who owns what oil is to extend the line at the same angle as the border was when it met the sea, and on that basis, Scotland owned less than half the oil they claim.
This was confirmed in a report commissioned by your own parliament.
When Scotland works out how much oil money they have 'given' England, they draw a line directly out from the point where the border ends into the sea.
The international convention on who owns what oil is to extend the line at the same angle as the border was when it met the sea, and on that basis, Scotland owned less than half the oil they claim.
This was confirmed in a report commissioned by your own parliament.