The SNP and Mrs Nicola Sturgeon

But ester we have to realised that there are no actual facts nor pertinent information required on this thread, its sole purpose is to allow the OP to air their ignorance and serious dislike of someone. The fact that genuine freely available information has been provided on this thread to disprove most of these third rate newspaper led opinions has essentially been pointedly ignored just so as tripe can be posted on irrelevant matters. ;)
 
fburton said:
"We" is not everybody, thank goodness (as much as I respect the Queen).
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Judges, Police Officers, Military personnel, Clergy. Members of Parliament to name but a few, thank god.

It never ceases to amaze me how folk live on these beautiful islands and yet, they all want to sabotage and destabilise the status quo, for their own selfish vane glorious egotistical satisfaction.
 
ester said:
Err, so I'm sure it would work really well if the decided that NS and TM didn't have to speak to each other in their respective roles, that would work really well.

and flags, I find it a constant source of confusion why they are such an issue for people. Same as with NI when issues are listed as 'flags, parades and the past' in that order!
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Ester please don't say I ignore your posts, 2nd in as many hours.

The Daily Express headline of a few moments ago:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...land-Nicola-Sturgeon-COBRA-new-Prime-Minister

"Where WAS Theresa? May ducks urgent COBRA terror meeting for chat with 'deluded' Sturgeon"

Does that imply NS has a mental problem and TM felt she should give NS some help and political therapy.

Young people need to be careful about zealots, leading them to some great Utopian political paradise.

Let's face it Hitler was as mad as a box of frogs, yet managed to carry off his political ideologies for years.
 
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Haha you are quoting the Express You must be desperate lol

NS is not responsible for TM's schedule or choice of meetings. Perhaps TM has trouble prioritising which for a Tory wouldn't be a shock
 
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Shutterbug said:
Haha you are quoting the Express You must be desperate lol

NS is not responsible for TM's schedule or choice of meetings. Perhaps TM has trouble prioritising which for a Tory wouldn't be a shock
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NS has whipped up a frenzy of latter day misguided belief in the minds of the Scots, that they can achieve independence and remain in the EU.

For one thing, Scotland does not have the money to pay the membership for the latter.

Her whole raison d'etre in sheer irresponsible reckless madness.
 
I live here and I can assure you there is no frenzy. Independence is not at the forefront of these discussions despite what your silly little newspapers may tell you. There is nothing to suggest that Scotland cannot have membership of the EU as an independent country.

Scotland will decide her own future. I find it hilarious that the same people demanding we leave the EU, perfectly prepared to walk into the great unknown without any definite plan of how we proceed. With no idea on how it will affect jobs, our position in Europe, our finances or anything else, are so hellbent on Scotland never gaining independence under the same. Absolutely bloody hilarious and terribly hypocritical
 
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Shutterbug said:
I find it hilarious that the same people demanding we leave the EU, perfectly prepared to walk into the great U loan without any definite plan of how we proceed. With no idea on how it will affect jobs, our position in Europe or anything else, are so hellbent on Scotland never gaining independence under the same. Absolutely bloody hilarious and terribly hypocritical
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In fairness, the vote on Scottish independence wasn't opened up to the UK. The result for staying might well have been different if it had been.
 
Shutterbug said:
I live here and I can assure you there is no frenzy. Independence is not at the forefront of these discussions despite what your silly little newspapers may tell you. There is nothing to suggest that Scotland cannot have membership of the EU as an independent country.

Scotland will decide her own future. I find it hilarious that the same people demanding we leave the EU, perfectly prepared to walk into the great unknown without any definite plan of how we proceed. With no idea on how it will affect jobs, our position in Europe, our finances or anything else, are so hellbent on Scotland never gaining independence under the same. Absolutely bloody hilarious and terribly hypocritical
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And if the EU vote had swopped a few percents and Scotland's vote forced England to stay in the EU .I don't suppose it would have been OK for the English who voted out to rail against the unfairness of the system .
You know your own people kept you in the union the English did not impose it on Scotland .
 
Goldenstar said:
And if the EU vote had swopped a few percents and Scotland's vote forced England to stay in the EU .I don't suppose it would have been OK for the English who voted out to rail against the unfairness of the system .
You know your own people kept you in the union the English did not impose it on Scotland .
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Of course it would have been fair - Farrage had already taken steps to move forward to another referendum should the Uk have voted to stay. Just because you lose the vote doesn't mean you lose the right to continue to fight the cause. This is why the party who runs the country has an opposition. Because the other side still gets to argue their case.

Yes I am perfectly aware of the results of the referendum thank you but you have to understand that one of the reasons many people in Scotland voted No was because one of the the No arguments was "the only way to remain in the EU is to vote No" They were lied to, and the game has changed
 
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Fidgety said:
In fairness, the vote on Scottish independence wasn't opened up to the UK. The result for staying might well have been different if it had been.
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It may well have been, but it's an argument I only really hear from English folk who have voted to leave Europe but don't think Scotland should be Independant.
 
Goldenstar said:
You know your own people kept you in the union the English did not impose it on Scotland .
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But during the run up to the Indy ref wasn't Scotland told that remaining part of the UK was the only way she could stay in the EU? That was a major concern for many Scots and without a doubt had a considerable impact on voting.
 
Shutterbug said:
It may well have been, but it's an argument I only really hear from English folk who have voted to leave Europe but don't think Scotland should be Independant.
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You are very mistaken many in England would love to watch you trying to paddle your own canoe. It would be great entertainment no more free university funded by England ,etc etc perks you have in scotland that are not available south of the border . If scotland had to go it alone it will be running a large defecit financially. See if NS would be so popular then.
Her only other hope would be increasing taxes and the big buisness that at the moment contributes to what you say comes to westminster will move south of the border because taxes will be lower. We would loved to have had a vote in your referendum and helped you become independant.
Whatever you may think of her NS does not come across well in England as she is always whinging on the media about something or other and im afraid we get fed up with it after a while.
 
Buddy'sMum said:
But during the run up to the Indy ref wasn't Scotland told that remaining part of the UK was the only way she could stay in the EU? That was a major concern for many Scots and without a doubt had a considerable impact on voting.
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It was true ! How long do you think it will take you to rejoin if you are independant . My best guess would be 6-8 years. The EU dont want you as they already have several countries with out of proportion fiscal deficits and the rules of membership will not allow you to join under these circumstances and you will have to adopt the euro but thats ok as by the time you are independent your scottish pounds will be worth a euro.
However seriously I really feel in my heart all this is wasted energy as not much is going to change we will still be all part of the EU in 10 yrs time ,however a much changed one because if they dont change the UK wont be the only ones leaving.
 
Shutterbug said:
It may well have been, but it's an argument I only really hear from English folk who have voted to leave Europe but don't think Scotland should be Independant.
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You now know of one who voted leave who would be abundantly happy if the Scots had chosen to be independent. :)
 
popsdosh said:
You are very mistaken many in England would love to watch you trying to paddle your own canoe. It would be great entertainment no more free university funded by England ,etc etc perks you have in scotland that are not available south of the border . If scotland had to go it alone it will be running a large defecit financially. See if NS would be so popular then.
Her only other hope would be increasing taxes and the big buisness that at the moment contributes to what you say comes to westminster will move south of the border because taxes will be lower. We would loved to have had a vote in your referendum and helped you become independant.
Whatever you may think of her NS does not come across well in England as she is always whinging on the media about something or other and im afraid we get fed up with it after a while.
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So if many in England wanted to watch us run our own country why were the politicians offering us many things (which they subsequently backed out of surprise surprise) to stay in the union? Id England had really wanted rid of Scotland then why did they fight and threaten and promise various different positions to keep us in??

I honestly don't understand where you get your information popdosh? Are you another third rate toilet paper newspaper reader as well??? Not knowing the difference between the different politicians is one thing but seriously you didn't watch the news before the Scottish referendum and all the promises and threats that were made? Surely not.
 
popsdosh said:
You are very mistaken many in England would love to watch you trying to paddle your own canoe. It would be great entertainment no more free university funded by England ,etc etc perks you have in scotland that are not available south of the border . If scotland had to go it alone it will be running a large defecit financially. See if NS would be so popular then.
Her only other hope would be increasing taxes and the big buisness that at the moment contributes to what you say comes to westminster will move south of the border because taxes will be lower. We would loved to have had a vote in your referendum and helped you become independant.
Whatever you may think of her NS does not come across well in England as she is always whinging on the media about something or other and im afraid we get fed up with it after a while.
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I have already provided you with more than enough proof that England does not subsidise Scotland. I can't make you read it that's up
to you to do that for yourself. But you seem to have glossed right over it and chosen to completely ignore it. All links are independent sources by the way so knock yourself out with some facts there before you repeat your nonsense.

Think about it, if Scotland is such a drain on England why are they so determined to hang on to us? Perhaps you need is a little more that you realise.

Unless you are prepared to actually digest the information provided in a discussion you may as well not be part of said discussion if you're just going to go round in circles repeating yourself despite people providing you with evidence to the contrary.
 
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popsdosh said:
You are very mistaken many in England would love to watch you trying to paddle your own canoe.
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I never said they wouldn't. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be very much mistake about however I suspect you a be mistaking my saying that an argument I only hear from English people with me saying all English people wanted Scotland to remain in the UK. Which is not what I said at all

You are very much mistaken
 
Shutterbug said:
I have already provided you with more than enough proof that England does not subsidise Scotland. I can't make you read it that's up
to you to do that for yourself. But you seem to have glossed right over it and chosen to completely ignore it. All links are independent sources by the way so knock yourself out with some facts there before you repeat your nonsense.

Think about it, if Scotland is such a drain on England why are they so determined to hang on to us? Perhaps you need is a little more that you realise.

Unless you are prepared to actually digest the information provided in a discussion you may as well not be part of said discussion if you're just going to go round in circles repeating yourself despite people providing you with evidence to the contrary.
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A great many English people don't care either way that's the camp I am in .
I am happy and confident being English and european
 
Goldenstar said:
A great many English people don't care either way that's the camp I am in .
I am happy and confident being English and european
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I have a great many friends in England who feel the same. Happy to be English and European and don't care if Scotland are independent or not. And that's a great place to be.

It's the Daily Fail and Mirror readers who just repeat sound bites they read or hear with absolutely no evidence to back it up and who will happily ignore any evidence presented to them. They are the same kinds of people who
voted to leave EU whilst believing the leave campaign promises. Immigration won't stop And nor are we going to get a massive injection of money into our NHS. If we have any hope of having a good exit agreement with the EU, with a few countries stating they will block a generous exit agreement with us, we will have to keep our borders open, we will have to have an agreement with the EU and we will still have to part either money to retain that agreement. Only we won't have a say in how the EU is run anymore
 
An equally important reason for the first independence vote was that Alex Salmond was unable to come up with an answer to how an independant Scotland would finance itself. His figures involved the revenue from North Sea oil, which has now crashed and keeping sterling. I am English, I have absolutely no desire to keep Scotland in a union it no longer wishes to be part of, I just wish the SNP would shut up whingeing and hold a 2nd referendum.
 
millikins said:
I just wish the SNP would shut up whingeing and hold a 2nd referendum.
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To be fair, over the last nearly 2 years since the referendum, the only time the SNP have ever discussed a second referendum is when someone from the Tories or Labour Party has brought it up, which they do frequently to the point of annoyance. The answer is always the same - it's not up to the SNP to decide when is the right time for a second referendum it's up to the people of Scotland. We voted them in on the basis that material change would trigger discussions of a second referendum and our 92 MP's wiped the floor with every other political party in Scotland on that basis. Sturgeon has always said there would need to be a change or step that would trigger a referendum, she has now said its on the table and being considered. They are not the ones who have banged on about it for the last 2 years. And her response to any questions relating to it has never changed
 
Oh and meant to add, the oil only accounts for a fraction of Scotland's income

Even without oil, Scotland’s GDP per head is less than 1% lower than the rest of the UK’s

Oil would just be an extra bonus
 
Shutterbug said:
…….. - it's not up to the SNP to decide when is the right time for a second referendum it's up to the people of Scotland. ……..
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Would that be along the same idealogical lines whereby the UK will leave the EU because that's the will of the people? I feel compelled to remind you that Referendums are not binding and any government or parliament is bound to take the decision which it feels in in the nation's interest, even if the nation doesn't agree.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Would that be along the same idealogical lines whereby the UK will leave the EU because that's the will of the people? I feel compelled to remind you that Referendums are not binding and any government or parliament is bound to take the decision which it feels in in the nation's interest, even if the nation doesn't agree.

Alec.
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Yeah I'm very well aware of that. Not sure why you are compelled to remind me though?
 
Shutterbug said:
Yeah I'm very well aware of that. Not sure why you are compelled to remind me though?
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Because you seem to think that the SNP will follow the will of the Scots and hold another Indy vote when it's demanded, and I pointed out to you that no Government of Parliament are compelled to follow any Referendums, even should Leave be the choice.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Because you seem to think that the SNP will follow the will of the Scots and hold another Indy vote when it's demanded, and I pointed out to you that no Government of Parliament are compelled to follow any Referendums, even should Leave be the choice.

Alec.
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Not entirely correct Alex, I refer you to the Alternative Vote referendum in 2011 which was legally binding.

That aside, the point I'm making is that the SNP have always declared there would not be another referendum until there was a requirement for it from the people of Scotland. So yes they will hold another referendum at the will of the Scottish people. Wether that result would be respected or followed through on by a government is irrelevant to the discussion at this point.
 
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