WWYD - Tripping

Dyllymoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2013
Messages
1,047
J had his steroid injection in his neck today. Only in c5/c6 and only on the left side.

Before all that he was walked and trotted up and lunged, they said he has shown no lameness where before he was 1/10.

Neuro tests. Still dragging left toe when asked to back up but intermittent and less than before.

I asked for xrays of his front feet which were done but I won't get the report until tomorrow. Vet kept saying she might be able to see much on the xrays, did I still want them and that the insurance wouldn't cover them as I have requested them.... even though its for the lameness/tripping that relates to the neck issues??!! Ugh!

2 weeks rest then vet said 1 week lunging and then I can start riding.

I won't lunge but will walk him in hand/long rein him.

He is such a good boy and stood stock still for nearly 2 hours when they did his feet xrays. No sedation again. Makes me sad I can't explain to him.

Vet said no guarantee he will be fixable. Guess we see what the xrays say and go from there.
 

Melody Grey

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 April 2014
Messages
747
I’d seek clarification on whether you might get the x-rays paid for as part of your lameness investigation? I did in similar circumstances and I had suggested them, although my vet approved.
J had his steroid injection in his neck today. Only in c5/c6 and only on the left side.

Before all that he was walked and trotted up and lunged, they said he has shown no lameness where before he was 1/10.

Neuro tests. Still dragging left toe when asked to back up but intermittent and less than before.

I asked for xrays of his front feet which were done but I won't get the report until tomorrow. Vet kept saying she might be able to see much on the xrays, did I still want them and that the insurance wouldn't cover them as I have requested them.... even though its for the lameness/tripping that relates to the neck issues??!! Ugh!

2 weeks rest then vet said 1 week lunging and then I can start riding.

I won't lunge but will walk him in hand/long rein him.

He is such a good boy and stood stock still for nearly 2 hours when they did his feet xrays. No sedation again. Makes me sad I can't explain to him.

Vet said no guarantee he will be fixable. Guess we see what the xrays say and go from there.
 

Dyllymoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2013
Messages
1,047
Vet sent the report at 11pm last night. I will.call today to ask what it means but I think she is saying that "nothing of concern" is there?

On examination there was mild ossification of the ungular (collateral) cartilages of the distal phalanx (coffin bone), more pronounced on the medial (inside) aspect of both feet. These changes are likely clinical insignificant and are seen in normal horses. In addition, there was a slight broken back hoof pastern axis, slight rotation of the second phalanx (short pastern bone) and mediolateral (side to side) imbalance, with more weight going through the medial (inside) aspect of the limb. These findings were more pronounced in the left forelimb than the right. Examination of the navicular bone did not show any significant abnormalities, with good corticomedullary definition.

Screenshot_20200916-055643_Drive.jpg Screenshot_20200916-055623_Drive.jpg
 

Dyllymoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2013
Messages
1,047
Vet isn't in today, I've asked for another vet to call me (they only need to explain the above report to me)…. Just feel like I'm constantly in limbo with no real idea what is going on.
 

Dyllymoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2013
Messages
1,047
Okay that report reads to me as ‘nothing major but intervene now to prevent problems developing’.
You’ve got unbalanced feet, with the left worse.
Thats what I thought but just not sure.

So how do we intervene now? Im convinced if I don't sort his feet his neck problems won't get better and will get worse. I know his neck will degenerate but im hoping to delay it as long as possible :(
 

ihatework

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
17,370
Thats what I thought but just not sure.

So how do we intervene now? Im convinced if I don't sort his feet his neck problems won't get better and will get worse. I know his neck will degenerate but im hoping to delay it as long as possible :(
You employ a very good farrier who can shoe and rebalance to X-ray
 

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
12,600
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
You employ a very good farrier who can shoe and rebalance to X-ray
I wouldn’t be asking your current farrier to do it. Much of the imbalance could have been deduced without the x rays. Not a great job, sad to say, which is bit of a theme on HHO atm re hoof care professionals :(.
 

IrishMilo

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 April 2020
Messages
338
Nope, in fact I was thinking of taking him barefoot before we found his arthritis in his neck. I didn't want to change anything until we had looked into everything.
I feel like I shout BAREFOOT all the time on this forum so don't think I have anything against shoes when they would actually benefit the horse... but with ossification and the arthritis in the neck, and possibly elsewhere, combined with the fact that he's in a very light workload, I would take the shoes off and get yourself a really good farrier who understands how to keep a barefoot horse, or a barefoot trimmer. I'd go with the latter just because that's what they specialise in, but there's obviously good and bad to both.

I don't know of a scenario where letting the foot absorb as much concussion as possible is a bad thing. If you can sort out the imbalance and broken back HPA as much as possible that should help tonnes.
 

splashgirl45

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 March 2010
Messages
8,892
Location
suffolk
while taking shoes off may be a good idea, it seems that it is better for the horse to have his feet balanced properly and stay in shoes until everything else has settled. why take shoes off with the chance of making him footsore as well as his other problems. OP has said taking shoes off were an option previously and i agree its best to wait. going without shoes does not solve everything....
 

Dyllymoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2013
Messages
1,047
I've spoken to my farrier.

My vets has recommended someone else. Im waiting to hear about him coming out.

My rehab physio has given me a rehab plan.

I'm soaking his hay as I'm so worried about laminitis due to the steroid injection and his weight.

I feel very over whelmed and I just want to get everything sorted so I know what the plan is.
 

TPO

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 November 2008
Messages
4,447
Location
Kinross
while taking shoes off may be a good idea, it seems that it is better for the horse to have his feet balanced properly and stay in shoes until everything else has settled. why take shoes off with the chance of making him footsore as well as his other problems. OP has said taking shoes off were an option previously and i agree its best to wait. going without shoes does not solve everything....
What OP does is totally her call and I 100% understand why only one thing at a time should change but...

The hooves are unbalanced but have been made to "fit" onto a flat rim. If he were to go into boots and pads his whole hoof would be supported and using those EP pads would provide support while allowing the weaker/"good" side to start supporting more of the load as he is gradually learns to move as he should.

I'd hazard a guess that he has been compensating for a while. That means it's unlikely to be a quick fix and there nay be a step back every so often because as initial issues are addressed others that they have been hiding pop up.

Every chance I'm missing the obvious but I dont understand how a flat 3/4 rim of steel, a concussive material, helps. Even more so considering that is what has been happening up until now.

I think OP said a week or two of long reining before ridden walk work. I'm the worlds slowest at everything but I'd personally be looking into some form of straightness training and look at the next 4-6wks as corrective posture training with shoes off and boots/pads so that every step is a comfortable step. Hooves and muscles have to be used correctly to develop but it had to be comfortable use. No benefit at all to have a horse tip toeing and changing stride pattern because they are feeling their feet.

I'd involve a good physio/bodyworker roo because ad his movement changes he will develop muscle quickly and might feel it a bit using muscles he hasnt for a while.

Personally I'd encourage some anthropomorphism and imagine that you are taking your own shoes off and starting weightlifting, cardio and pilates. You know it's possible because plenty of people live barefoot and do weightlifting etc but you can imagine how you would feel starting out so little and often kinds thing. I know it's not applicable here at all but so many people rush their horses after box rest, fitness plans or doing "corrective" work.
 

IrishMilo

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 April 2020
Messages
338
while taking shoes off may be a good idea, it seems that it is better for the horse to have his feet balanced properly and stay in shoes until everything else has settled. why take shoes off with the chance of making him footsore as well as his other problems. OP has said taking shoes off were an option previously and i agree its best to wait. going without shoes does not solve everything....
Everything else can't settle properly until the feet are balanced, and it's impossible for the foot to do that itself while it's nailed to a shoe - that's basically the long and short of it. Trimming a foot to fit a shoe essentially obliterates the natural shape and function. Going without shoes isn't going to reverse the arthritis but it's going to reduce impact of all the joints and provide a cushion of support that a shoe totally removes. This video is incredible at showing that: https://www.facebook.com/100008094679070/videos/pcb.2437661716513627/2437653816514417

Being footsore is a very short term problem to a long term solution and there are loads of ways to mitigate that - boots, pads, reduced workload, diet. Not every horse is footsore out shoes anyway - I've had three or four who've stepped out them and haven't even noticed.
 

Dyllymoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2013
Messages
1,047
I'm so confused :(

I've messaged the farrier recommended and he has told me what he would do, which is fine. I mentioned barefoot and he said its a good thing to do if the horse can cope.

I just don't know. I want the best for him but feel like whatever I do I will question myself and him at every step. I feel sick with anxiety today.
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
19,469
I think if you've been recommended a farrier by your vet then in the first instance I'd be guided by them.
They've seen the horse, the x rays, they know you and what you can manage and provide by way of rehab. a good farrier can shoe (if necessary) to x rays to rebalance the foot correctly so you don't have to go barefoot to achieve that, though there may be other reasons why it would be a good move. In your position I'd let your professionals guide you on that.

Don't get overwhelmed. this seems to me like something you need to attack in bitesize pieces. the changes in the neck have already happened and they aren't going to be reversed by going barefoot so if you aren't ready to take that on, I don't personally think you have to do that now with great urgency (nothing to stop you doing that later). you've got a lot going on. I would personally probably want to get the feet comfortable & correct in shoes so you can assess the results of the neck treatment without having to also allow for potential discomfort from whipping them off. Yeah he might be fine without them, but he might also need quite a bit of input to get comfortable, and if you're dealing with that then you won't be able to see how he responds to the neck meds. which IIRC are the subject of an insurance claim, and therefore the clock is ticking on that.
 

Michen

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2014
Messages
5,561
I think if you've been recommended a farrier by your vet then in the first instance I'd be guided by them.
They've seen the horse, the x rays, they know you and what you can manage and provide by way of rehab. a good farrier can shoe (if necessary) to x rays to rebalance the foot correctly so you don't have to go barefoot to achieve that, though there may be other reasons why it would be a good move. In your position I'd let your professionals guide you on that.

Don't get overwhelmed. this seems to me like something you need to attack in bitesize pieces. the changes in the neck have already happened and they aren't going to be reversed by going barefoot so if you aren't ready to take that on, I don't personally think you have to do that now with great urgency (nothing to stop you doing that later). you've got a lot going on. I would personally probably want to get the feet comfortable & correct in shoes so you can assess the results of the neck treatment without having to also allow for potential discomfort from whipping them off. Yeah he might be fine without them, but he might also need quite a bit of input to get comfortable, and if you're dealing with that then you won't be able to see how he responds to the neck meds. which IIRC are the subject of an insurance claim, and therefore the clock is ticking on that.
Agree with every bit of this. Of course you can re balance a foot whilst shoeing, albiet taking the shoes off can be a great way to let the foot to it itself.
 

Dyllymoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 November 2013
Messages
1,047
Sorry I know I sound like a complete drama queen, I'm just so worried about causing more issues.

The farrier is coming back to me with costs and a date ASAP, I need to talk to current farrier and explain vet recommendation and go from there. Its going to be very expensive but if it helps him it is worth it. Beans on toast has always been a favourite!

Thanks all… sorry to keep going over the same things
 

Lindylouanne

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 November 2013
Messages
8,538
Location
On the edge of the Cotswolds
Dyllymoo please don’t worry and breathe. My little WB pony started tripping badly and was constantly lame while shod 5 years ago aged 5. His feet looked ok, his xrays were fine other than having thin soles, a natural foot imbalance which he had been born with and small side bones but it continued. In the end I had his shoes taken off and immediately even I could see the problems caused by the way he had been shod. Farrier was immediately sacked and I got Mark Johnson in to sort him out and he has been barefoot and never had a lame day because of his feet since. He isn’t a good candidate to be barefoot because of his thin soles but I’m careful with him and he is booted all round to be ridden in.

If your new farrier thinks BF might be good to start with to settle everything down it doesn’t mean you can’t go back to shoes at a later date but having seen how quickly it solved DP’s issues it is an option you have.
 

Michen

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2014
Messages
5,561
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but... does he land flat/heel first/even? It's all very well x rays showing an imbalance but personally I'd be cautious about how much rebalancing you do, if the foot is already landing level. Not to say none should be done, just that I'd watch really carefully that he doesn't then start to land outside first or whatnot.

I manage this with Bog through shoeing and barefoot combined btw, in that he has periods without shoes and is then shod to his "natural" wear pattern (which remains consistent). He will land outside first on his right fore if we try and trim/force him into a balanced looking hoof.. I slow mo video his feet at least once a month to keep an eye on it.

What's fascinating me about him is that as he's got older this seems to have become less of a problem, it's like he's straightened himself out. Who knows what caused it, maybe a strength thing. His heel height now for example is level, and he lands level. But he does have "more hoof" surface area (not sure if that even makes sense) on one side than the other on both front feet. he also grows some minor flares on the inside.
 
Top