WWYD - Tripping

[Dyllymoo]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but... does he land flat/heel first/even? It's all very well x rays showing an imbalance but personally I'd be cautious about how much rebalancing you do, if the foot is already landing level. Not to say none should be done, just that I'd watch really carefully that he doesn't then start to land outside first or whatnot.

I manage this with Bog through shoeing and barefoot combined btw, in that he has periods without shoes and is then shod to his "natural" wear pattern (which remains consistent). He will land outside first on his right fore if we try and trim/force him into a balanced looking hoof.. I slow mo video his feet at least once a month to keep an eye on it.

I will try and get some video of his landing tonight.

 

[Michen]

I will try and get some video of his landing tonight.

Yep I take mine by propping phone on floor against wall and walking him up and down, and also filming with me at the very end of the leadrope walking backwards as he comes towards me (if I don't have a helper!).

A good farrier will ask you to walk him towards him so that he can see for himself. A really good farrier if the landing is wonky will walk him up, trim a bit, walk him up again, trim a bit until that landing is improved (assuming it needs to be!).

 

[Tiddlypom]

Everything else can't settle properly until the feet are balanced, and it's impossible for the foot to do that itself while it's nailed to a shoe - that's basically the long and short of it

Just to chip in. A good farrier can rebalance the foot while the horse is still in shoes, just like a crap barefoot trimmer can easily unbalance the unshod foot.

I have experience of both of those scenarios .

The most important thing is to get a good hoof care professional, and not rely on what qualifications an individual has. Sounds like Dyllymoo is on to it.

 

[shamrock2021]

At least you found out what’s going on with your horse. Hopefully the medicine will work for him so you can ride him. it’s seems to be caught early which is good. Your horse is a overweight if you get him To lose some weight it could slow the damage to his neck.

 

[IrishMilo]

Just to chip in. A good farrier can rebalance the foot while the horse is still in shoes, just like a crap barefoot trimmer can easily unbalance the unshod foot.

I have experience of both of those scenarios .

The most important thing is to get a good hoof care professional, and not rely on what qualifications an individual has. Sounds like Dyllymoo is on to it.

I appreciate that and I've always said there are good and bad of both. I don't care whether someone uses a conventional farrier or a barefoot specialist.

My point is that adding thicker or thinner branches or wedges is never going to fix the root cause. I don't want this to turn into a barefoot vs. shod debate so I'm not going to say any more

 

[milliepops]

I'm not sure either will fix the root cause tbh as the horse has changes in his neck. the main thing will be to make sure his feet are comfortable and optimising his movement *one way or the other* to give the rest of his treatment & rehab the best chance of success.

I just think sometimes barefoot is promoted on here as some kind of miracle thing but this horse's issues sort of go beyond the feet and I don't think the OP needs to stress out about one option over the other at this stage, being open minded is enough and there are more immediate things to concentrate on.

 

[Tiddlypom]

don't want this to turn into a barefoot vs. shod debate

But you just have ?‍.

 

[Melody Grey]

I recently had a similar dilemma in addressing balancing issues- whether to go with remedial shoeing or try barefoot. I went with remedial farriery on the basis that my insurance is paying and I couldn’t afford to attempt this approach without it. I can however finance a Back to barefoot transition In The future if current approach doesn’t work.

 

[Dyllymoo]

I recently had a similar dilemma in addressing balancing issues- whether to go with remedial shoeing or try barefoot. I went with remedial farriery on the basis that my insurance is paying and I couldn’t afford to attempt this approach without it. I can however finance a Back to barefoot transition In The future if current approach doesn’t work.

This is the conversation I have had with myself. The new farrier is happy to support barefoot but did say he wouldn't come that far for that.

But I've decided to try remedial shoeing as its being advised by the vet and i don't want to cause any issues with insurance down the road.

 

[ester]

At this point, with his current issues I would have him shod in balance (as a pro barefoot person)
Unless they absolutely stomp out of shoes they can do a fair bit of compensating and that isn't going to help right now with neck changes.

Fwiw petplan said they would have paid for remedial trimming barefoot, but their T+Cs still say must be seen by farrier though that was a few years ago.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Slow mo of his feet landing. Probably need to be more level to the floor.

 

[ester]

you've done a better job than many, I think he is landing flat which I would be happy with in shoes.
Totally wrong angle to tell properly but looks like might be a bit lateral on near fore.

 

[splashgirl45]

.he looks to be landing better than i had expected, good luck hope all goes well

 

[Tiddlypom]

That’s better than I was expecting, too .

 

[Dyllymoo]

Thanks everyone. New farrier is booked in for beginning of October. Hopefully we can sort him out with remedial shoeing and then in the future look at barefoot.

 

[tallyho!]

WHhops I posted and realised this is an old thread with plans in action etc...

 

[Dyllymoo]

So J had his new shoes done yesterday.

Photo is one of his fronts. His backs are just normal shoes however the farrier has said all 4 of his heels are collapsed and the hinds are worse than fronts. He has said we will shoe normally behind and see if his heels start to get better. If they don't he will need the same on the back.

He is also concerned there is something going on in his hind feet as well as fronts. I dont know whether to get his hinds xrayed or not.

He has also said he has seen something in his front feet xrays to do with his navicular bone. But he said he wants to send to a friend before saying anything.

He did his shoes and asked me to walk him up to him and he slow mo videoed. He said he needed to take some of the shoe balance down so rasped for a few seconds and we did it again. I watched the videos and honestly the difference was mad. He was inside of hoof first on the first and when the balance was adjusted he landed flat. If I hadn't of seen the videos I wouldn't of believed the difference!

It cost a lot of money as the farrier comes from a fair way but if it helps J then I dont care!

 

[splashgirl45]

good luck, hope it works

 

[Dyllymoo]

I've started rehab with J on Saturday. Hacking in walk for 20 mins a day until next weekend. Making notes as I go (I.e. is he tired, tripping etc.).

He is however slipping on his back legs on the road. We have had road nails previously but farrier took them out for his new shoes as they can cause concussion etc. He doesn't do it with every step and I am careful where I put him on the road but this morning both legs slipped (left hind and then he couldn't get his balance and right hind went. He managed to stay up but I'm getting concerned that this will not be good for his back end. I cant hack in fields as he just gets full of himself, and the slipping is worse especially this time of year. I feel a bit sad.

I literally have this sinking feeling that he isn't going to get better. His arthritis will never go away so its not as if I'm trying to fix it, but this makes me so sad. He may never come "right" or be able to hack low level even, and again that makes me sad.

He is such a kind hearted boy

 

[Roxylola]

Can you lead or long rein him for now? I dont think I'd want to be riding if hes that unbalanced. It might improve with work and strength

 

[milliepops]

I'd be inclined to ask farrier to review the road nails thing.
I've had this discussion with OH about my gang in the past. IMO slipping over (or simply losing confidence in their footing, which then affects the way they move) is worse than the negative effect of the road nails. if you're in a slippy area then there's not much you can do other than mitigate it.

he might be able to pull out one of the normal nails and replace with a road nail so you don't have to go a whole shoeing cycle.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Could you try without shoes on the hinds? I find that they slip less on tarmac when they are barefoot.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Could you try without shoes on the hinds? I find that they slip less on tarmac when they are barefoot.

Unfortunately not due to his feet and arthritis. Farrier will decide on 13th November if he requires the same padding and balance shoes as on the front.

I will speak to the farrier about road nails. His whole hack yesterday he didn't slip, but this morning he did on the same hack. I did think it was due to the road surface as on Saturday he slipped a couple of times and the road/ tarmac is quite shiney. now I just feel worried.

 

[IrishMilo]

I literally have this sinking feeling that he isn't going to get better. His arthritis will never go away so its not as if I'm trying to fix it, but this makes me so sad. He may never come "right" or be able to hack low level even, and again that makes me sad.QUOTE]

It's the worst feeling ever. I'm so sorry you're in this position. He's very cute.

 

[Caol Ila]

I just read this whole thread. So sorry that your lovely horse has all these medical issues.

Only thing I got is revisit the road nails issue. It improved my horse's way of going, as she was tight and tentative on downhill sections of road (there are some unavoidable ones), especially as the shoes wore down and lost grip. Post road nails, she's moving better and more balanced on the downhill tarmac, which means she feels better overall.

 

[Dyllymoo]

I've messaged my physio and she wants to see him Poor J

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Unfortunately not due to his feet and arthritis. Farrier will decide on 13th November if he requires the same padding and balance shoes as on the front.

Arthritis is no barrier. The reduction in concussion by removing the metal shoes could even be a benefit. I don't know what other issues he has with his hooves (I'm sure you've posted about it before but my brain is drawing a blank - sorry). Is he metabolically compromised?

Old video but still a good one.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Arthritis is no barrier. The reduction in concussion by removing the metal shoes could even be a benefit. I don't know what other issues he has with his hooves (I'm sure you've posted about it before but my brain is drawing a blank - sorry). Is he metabolically compromised?

Old video but still a good one.

He has a balance issue in one front, farrier is querying his navicular, he has sidebone as well.

Unfortunately its the amount of arthritic changes he has in his neck, and for such a young horse. Its not good. Physio, vet and farrier have all recommended leaving shoes on, sorting his feet issues first and then looking at barefoot but that it wont be overnight.

Cant see the video at work, will look tonight

 

[milliepops]

FWIW Dyllymoo i think that's the right approach, as I said before if you start a barefoot rehab at the same time as trying to sort all his other issues I think it will just muddy the waters and make it difficult to tell whether you're making progress or not. Def may be something to keep up your sleeve for later but i know you're really struggling with all this and I think if you also end up having BF related problems it'll just become overwhelming. x

 

[Dyllymoo]

FWIW Dyllymoo i think that's the right approach, as I said before if you start a barefoot rehab at the same time as trying to sort all his other issues I think it will just muddy the waters and make it difficult to tell whether you're making progress or not. Def may be something to keep up your sleeve for later but i know you're really struggling with all this and I think if you also end up having BF related problems it'll just become overwhelming. x

Already overwhelmed unfortunately and feeling pretty low. Thank you though, that's exactly the thoughts I think around it all. If we change too much he just might not cope properly.