WWYD - Tripping

[Lurfy]

It might be handy Dyllymoo to write down anything you might want to ask the vet so you don't forget when they ring you. I find I can get overwhelmed with information and my brain just stops and I forget basic things I wanted to know. Anyway good luck tomorrow, not long now xxx

 

[Dyllymoo]

Yes I've done a list but they are generic questions as we don't know how bad the changes are I guess.

I have:

1) Prognosis?
2) Plan going forward? (workload, medicate etc.)
3) Lameness in left fore - investigate?

 

[BBP]

Yes I've done a list but they are generic questions as we don't know how bad the changes are I guess.

I have:

1) Prognosis?
2) Plan going forward? (workload, medicate etc.)
3) Lameness in left fore - investigate?

I don’t know how familiar you are with interviewing but the 5W+H is quite handy when interrogating your vet. What where when why who and how. ‘What do you mean? Why would that happen? How will it affect him? Who else can I talk to about this? How long will it take to see improvements/how long will medications last? All that sort of stuff, you get a lot more information from them. Also questions like ‘explain to me in detail...’ to get a bit of an idiots guide. Don’t just accept technical speak that you don’t understand.

 

[Dyllymoo]

I don’t know how familiar you are with interviewing but the 5W+H is quite handy when interrogating your vet. What where when why who and how. ‘What do you mean? Why would that happen? How will it affect him? Who else can I talk to about this? How long will it take to see improvements/how long will medications last? All that sort of stuff, you get a lot more information from them. Also questions like ‘explain to me in detail...’ to get a bit of an idiots guide. Don’t just accept technical speak that you don’t understand.

Thank you that's helpful. Unfortunately I have had many calls about lameness issues so I know roughly the routes of the questions, but always good to be prepared.

I'm actually over the initial shock of them finding something which is always where I normally falter, if I'm honest I'm prepared for the worst, not to say that's what will happen (and definitely not to say I will handle it well!), but I think that has helped me be a bit more methodical this time. Third time's the charm!

 

[splashgirl45]

good luck

 

[Dyllymoo]

So I've heard from the vet..... He has mild changes in c3/c4 and c4/c5. C5/c6 are moderate changes with the narrowing around the nerves but no compression which is good.

Vet wants to medicate, give 2 weeks rest, then bring back into work but ground work only as she thinks its too dangerous to ride him. I asked how I would know if the medication worked as I have never seen him trip or stumble in hand only ridden. She said neuro tests (backing up and dragging left fore). She then said we would consider riding him.

She said if the medication won't work then he will be retired as too dangerous to ride him. So its not the worst news but not the best either. Just have to see how we go I guess xx

 

[Pearlsasinger]

So I've heard from the vet..... He has mild changes in c3/c4 and c4/c5. C5/c6 are moderate changes with the narrowing around the nerves but no compression which is good.

Vet wants to medicate, give 2 weeks rest, then bring back into work but ground work only as she thinks its too dangerous to ride him. I asked how I would know if the medication worked as I have never seen him trip or stumble in hand only ridden. She said neuro tests (backing up and dragging left fore). She then said we would consider riding him.

She said if the medication won't work then he will be retired as too dangerous to ride him. So its not the worst news but not the best either. Just have to see how we go I guess xx

As you say not the worst news and at least you have a plan now. I hope it all goes well.

 

[milliepops]

So I've heard from the vet..... He has mild changes in c3/c4 and c4/c5. C5/c6 are moderate changes with the narrowing around the nerves but no compression which is good.

Vet wants to medicate, give 2 weeks rest, then bring back into work but ground work only as she thinks its too dangerous to ride him. I asked how I would know if the medication worked as I have never seen him trip or stumble in hand only ridden. She said neuro tests (backing up and dragging left fore). She then said we would consider riding him.

She said if the medication won't work then he will be retired as too dangerous to ride him. So its not the worst news but not the best either. Just have to see how we go I guess xx

hope you get good results with the medication. I chose not to medicate mine who is similar but she's not my only horse so it was an easy decision, though disappointing, to retire her. it sounds like you've got a good plan going forward though and I'm so pleased you've got some concrete answers, although it's not brilliant news it's better than not really knowing what's going on and struggling through a problem. will be keeping my fingers crossed for you both x

 

[Dyllymoo]

Thanks both.

I'm really sad if im honest.

MP can I ask why you didn't medicate?

 

[milliepops]

Thanks both.

I'm really sad if im honest.

MP can I ask why you didn't medicate?

I'm not surprised you're sad, it's a blow and we all worry so much about our equine friends x I cried buckets when mine was diagnosed.

I didn't go ahead with the meds at this point partly because I'm a fairly ambitious competitive rider. I didn't really have an interest in continuing to ride & train a horse I knew was going to max out at a level that I would not find satisfying. Realistically she was already at her limit despite having a really willing brain, she wasn't really able to progress further. And knowing that I enjoy training horses on up the levels, it didn't sit well to me, to press a horse in that way with a physical limitation. For now she's super happy living out and not having any pressure put on her. I still have the option to medicate up my sleeve if she deteriorates but so far I've not seen any change for the worse so I'm choosing to just watch and wait.

If I was someone that enjoyed pottering around doing bits and bobs of light work and having a nice gentle hack I'd totally have gone for it and she'd still be ridden now. it was an option but it just doesn't work for me personally, I have to be honest about what I want from my horses. she's not really a quiet hack anyway! if things were different it would have been a good choice to go ahead with it. So I don't want to make it seem like I'm suggesting you shouldn't do it

 

[Dyllymoo]

I'm not surprised you're sad, it's a blow and we all worry so much about our equine friends x I cried buckets when mine was diagnosed.

I didn't go ahead with the meds at this point partly because I'm a fairly ambitious competitive rider. I didn't really have an interest in continuing to ride & train a horse I knew was going to max out at a level that I would not find satisfying. Realistically she was already at her limit despite having a really willing brain, she wasn't really able to progress further. And knowing that I enjoy training horses on up the levels, it didn't sit well to me, to press a horse in that way with a physical limitation. For now she's super happy living out and not having any pressure put on her. I still have the option to medicate up my sleeve if she deteriorates but so far I've not seen any change for the worse so I'm choosing to just watch and wait.

If I was someone that enjoyed pottering around doing bits and bobs of light work and having a nice gentle hack I'd totally have gone for it and she'd still be ridden now. it was an option but it just doesn't work for me personally, I have to be honest about what I want from my horses. she's not really a quiet hack anyway! if things were different it would have been a good choice to go ahead with it. So I don't want to make it seem like I'm suggesting you shouldn't do it

Thank you. That's good to know. I was worried there were things I hadn't considered. J was only going to be a hack and light work kind of guy so I just hope he can do that.

I do worry that I maybe I should just stop whilst we are ahead and he can retire happy

 

[milliepops]

I can understand that but if the vets have indicated that its a good option then I'd give it a go, given what your aims are.

 

[Equi]

Im sorry you didn't get a clean slate but im also glad you actually found something as it makes it much easier. When i watched the video i knew exactly what leg he was going to trip on before he tripped, so whilst the neck has obvious changes don't let that over shadow other things, he may still have an issue in that near fore (or both) that if sorted would help the neck too.

 

[BBP]

I can understand the mixed emotions. It’s confusing, I had vet out yesterday to do neuro tests on mine as I didn’t feel they had assessed him thoroughly last time. He had a really reduced Panniculus reflex (the skin twitch like when flies land on them) and was super easy to pull across with the tail, and yet they still don’t see a need to X-ray neck or believe there is a neuro component, and yet yours only had a toe drag in rein back and your vets have been straight to X-ray and scan.

 

[Dyllymoo]

I can understand the mixed emotions. It’s confusing, I had vet out yesterday to do neuro tests on mine as I didn’t feel they had assessed him thoroughly last time. He had a really reduced Panniculus reflex (the skin twitch like when flies land on them) and was super easy to pull across with the tail, and yet they still don’t see a need to X-ray neck or believe there is a neuro component, and yet yours only had a toe drag in rein back and your vets have been straight to X-ray and scan.

You can always push for xrays if you want them. I pushed for my mare.

I think the toe drag plus constant stumbles and one fall to knees was the reason.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Im sorry you didn't get a clean slate but im also glad you actually found something as it makes it much easier. When i watched the video i knew exactly what leg he was going to trip on before he tripped, so whilst the neck has obvious changes don't let that over shadow other things, he may still have an issue in that near fore (or both) that if sorted would help the neck too.

That is something but they feel the fact his left side in his neck is worse than right side and his issues are left leg mostly then its all connected.

 

[Equi]

That is something but they feel the fact his left side in his neck is worse than right side and his issues are left leg mostly then its all connected.

It very well could be. He could be compensating and all manner of things. I hope you can find a solution that helps him

 

[Tiddlypom]

At least you know now. I’d medicate him to give him the best chance of being a comfortable pasture ornament, with the hope that he can be ridden again.

I’ve just put had joints (not neck) medicated in two of mine with that in mind. Having one rideable Ned out of 3 would be nice...

 

[milliepops]

That is something but they feel the fact his left side in his neck is worse than right side and his issues are left leg mostly then its all connected.

Yeah i think this is fairly common. Mine appears slightly lame at times but its symptom of the neck rather than a problem with the leg itself.

 

[splashgirl45]

sorry its not better news but well done for investigating and taking no notice of the people who told you he was being naughty. fingers crossed you will be able to ride him again in the future...good luck with his medication

 

[Dyllymoo]

J is booked in to have injections next Tuesday. If a space becomes available this week they will let me know. Then its 2 weeks rest and then start to bring him back into work and see how he goes.

I've done some research over the weekend and feel a little less low about everything but it will just be a case of we can only do what we can do, and I plan to do everything I can for him (supplements, in hand exercises, loosing weight - both of us!)…. so yes, lets see how we go.

Thank you everyone for your support on this, and for gently pushing me not to ignore the signs that I knew were there

 

[Dyllymoo]

Interesting note. J had physio today. She didn't do any manipulation but I trust her wholeheartedly (she saw my mare previously).

She 100% believes the changes in his neck are related to his front feet (possibly just his left fore).

I'm getting his feet xrayed at the same time as his injections so we can see why he has the changes. She believes there is a reason and we need to find it rather than just patching up the issue.

She said his overall muscle was fab and he isn't showing any pain reactions other than having very poor mobility in his neck.

Its interesting to hear what she was saying about how he stands as well.

Will be interesting to see if anything shows on the xrays

 

[BBP]

How does he stand?

 

[Dyllymoo]

How does he stand?

With his fronts slightly under him so he is almost too far over them

 

[BBP]

Ah, same as my pony was doing. Although mine was camped under front and back, goat on a rock style. It’s those little things that you don’t really notice happening, but once they come to your attention you won’t stop seeing it in horses everywhere.

 

[Dyllymoo]

Ah, same as my pony was doing. Although mine was camped under front and back, goat on a rock style. It’s those little things that you don’t really notice happening, but once they come to your attention you won’t stop seeing it in horses everywhere.

His back end is fine but front slightly off. Its not terrible but noticeable and he was uncomfortable when she put him in the right position and shifted back fairly quickly

 

[Dyllymoo]

Does anyone know of any correlation between neck issues and choke?

J had what I think was a minor episode last night, not massive amount of dribble/ discharge, but he was nodding his head slightly, obviously uncomfortable, didn't demand his hay as per usual. He was lethargic and would box walk his stable, and sometimes make a grunting noise.

Vet came out and wasn't sure what it was. Possible choke that has sorted itself out she thought and just maybe bruised his neck. He has had bloods taken and had a painkiller last night. Much perkier this morning and eating normally but he is still holding his head quite low.

I'm a little bit annoyed as Vet moved his neck around to the side (as I have seen a chiro do on previous horses) and I said "He is very sore in his neck and very stiff can you not do that", she smiled and said she was a chrio. I said that's nice but he doesn't need that done. This was after she had taken his history so knew about his neck.

Anyway, anyone know any correlation? Obviously I will keep an eye on him but it just feels like it was sore for him to keep his neck up.

 

[milliepops]

more than likely just a coincidence I'd have thought. the One of mine had a little choke about a year ago and it was as you describe, a little bit dribbly, but mainly just a bit sad and occasionally grunty. not the normal full on spasms and drool. it cleared itself but she was a bit miserable for a while.

 

[Dyllymoo]

more than likely just a coincidence I'd have thought. the One of mine had a little choke about a year ago and it was as you describe, a little bit dribbly, but mainly just a bit sad and occasionally grunty. not the normal full on spasms and drool. it cleared itself but she was a bit miserable for a while.

Okey doke that's good to know. Just another expensive vet bill.

 

[milliepops]

never ending, sometimes, isn't it