Horse turning nasty.

[Rose Folly]

One of the saddest threads I've read on the forum. Agree with Susie T, Moomin, Recriverrock, Equilibrium Ireland et al so much.

Frankely, I don't think you are the person for this horse. What I gleaned from your original post was not a nasty horse but a deeply traumatised horse - and all the hitting him then treats, then sitting down beside him is totally inconsistent.

I've had this kind of experience only once, and I won't bore everyone with it here. But it took me about 3 years to undo what had been done to this particular poor mare - and it was mainly neglecting her needs, not bullying. She came to me biting, kicking - she'd double barrelled former owner's son out of the stable, fractured two dogs' skulls.etc. etc.

I'm only a very average horsewoman but who's been around horses a long time. Everything I read on your post makes me feel you are not the person to handle this situation.

I am very sorry that you have to have an op. (and that isn't going to help the relationship any). Please listen to what people wiser and with moree xperience of young horses have to say to you on here. I realise that you yourself are experienced, but we never stop learning!

 

[marlyclay]

How are you jh. I hope the surgery on your hand has gone well and you are back home

 

[ter21wat]

I totally agree with anyone who has mentioned that lack of turn out may be the problem. It is in a horse natural make up to be constantly on the move and to be continuously eating....in the wild horses can cover over 20 miles per day and spend 60/70% of its time eating. With this horse being stabled 23hrs per day and taken out in hand for the remaining hour, with no additional exercise, it iss not getting the oportunity to behave the way a horse should. Its no wonder this horse is full of pent up aggression....he is 3 years old and he never gets the chance to kick up his heels (in the field I mean) or play with his friends or do anything a horse naturally needs to do to remain balanced and sane!

I can tell you if I was locked in my house for 23hrs a day with no other exercise I would turn aggresive pretty quickly!!

 

[Achinghips]

I can tell you if I was locked in my house for 23hrs a day with no other exercise I would turn aggresive pretty quickly!!

How about one small room then, like this horse? Had no idea that this horse had such little turnout.

Agree with others, turn him away so he can get his head to understand the world around him.

 

[jhoward]

im ok well buggered hand but he ho,
excuse me for any bluntness but a ga and typing with one hand has that efect, a few points to clear up.

no im not a bloody troll. what a stupid thing to say.

horse has been seen by a vet... twice in last month and an osteo.

horse gets pleanty of turnout and normally lives out but due to weather has had to have time off the land.

horse has competed since a baby, so a show was no biggy, i choose small quiet indoor show for his 1st outing with me. he never barring being inpatiant..ie not wanting stand didnt put a foot wrong, he had a spook... worth noting here, that in the line up one horse spooked and set the others off.. he oddly was the only one that didnt react.

yes i let go,600 kg of horse had just broken/ruptured my finger. it was a freak accident not the horse being nasty

he was caught, then the judge took hold of him and stood consitatly jabbing him in the gob. i dont care what any one says. it was not acceptable for her to do it.

once again i will point out that he is not a nasty horse, thats the hole point of this thread. he wouldnt just lash out as u walked behind him for example.

as it happens i have had a professional come out and work with us in regards to getting him broken. he then had an accident which prevented further work. he was at the point of being sat on happily.

for all of u going poor horse etc, i think not, this lad was a bargy ***** when i got him... that grooms were scared to lead. hes very polite on the ground, leads well... i coyldnt get near him with a bridle, he was scared, he would shake get the runs etc.
my handling of him has got him as far as he has come, he is still different with other people, but that wil come in time.
small things we can now do, easy to bridle, wash with a hose etc
re the whip.. he is not a horse u can jab and say stand.. he goes up (this can be related to his time before me and the use of chains/chifneys etc)so with him one smack and a stand does the job, when hes done asked he is rewarded.

re sitting wih him. always have done and its one of the ways ive gt him over his ear phobia etc.

as it happens agree horse needs to be broken, but with my injury and winter on its way ive dcided that turning im away is the better option.

thanks to thoose that have pmd, and offered helpful advice. the rest of u can frankly not bother.. hardly constructive were u.

ah well im chuffed that after5 years as a member ive finally been called a troll lol

 

[jhoward]

How about one small room then, like this horse? Had no idea that this horse had such little turnout.

Agree with others, turn him away so he can get his head to understand the world around him.

christ, a small room? this horse is in a 30 foot by 20 foot barn what on earth do u think of people that keep horses in a 12 x 12 room

 

[jhoward]

I totally agree with anyone who has mentioned that lack of turn out may be the problem. It is in a horse natural make up to be constantly on the move and to be continuously eating....in the wild horses can cover over 20 miles per day and spend 60/70% of its time eating. With this horse being stabled 23hrs per day and taken out in hand for the remaining hour, with no additional exercise, it iss not getting the oportunity to behave the way a horse should. Its no wonder this horse is full of pent up aggression....he is 3 years old and he never gets the chance to kick up his heels (in the field I mean) or play with his friends or do anything a horse naturally needs to do to remain balanced and sane!

I can tell you if I was locked in my house for 23hrs a day with no other exercise I would turn aggresive pretty quickly!!

he is 4 not 3... i think people are failing to read properly and just making things up

 

[thehorsephotographer]

Just come back to this thread blimey are people always as judgemental on here when asked for advice? There seems to have been a lot of supposition going on.

Oh and what's a troll? I thought it was a fictional thing from Billy Goats Gruff but seen it mentioned a few times on here.

 

[YasandCrystal]

for all of u going poor horse etc, i think not, this lad was a bargy ***** when i got him... that grooms were scared to lead. hes very polite on the ground, leads well... i coyldnt get near him with a bridle, he was scared, he would shake get the runs etc.
my handling of him has got him as far as he has come, he is still different with other people, but that wil come in time.
small things we can now do, easy to bridle, wash with a hose etc
re the whip.. he is not a horse u can jab and say stand.. he goes up (this can be related to his time before me and the use of chains/chifneys etc)so with him one smack and a stand does the job, when hes done asked he is rewarded.

OP you say this and you said
'now ive dealt with horses that are nasty.. but never one that become nasty, his sire was nasty so that could be part of it.

i know ive mentioned the whip but he is not hit about, he isnt the sort of horse you can do that to, normally a firm no and he backs it in, but tonight was worthy of a bullet.

so what havnt i thought about.. why is a horse becoming nasty.?

It is a fine line between 'bargy/pushy/full of himself' and downright rude/nasty. Rearing is reaction he has no doubt learnt when he was scared or told off to get the upperhand and feel better himself.

I think posters are genuinely surprised that you posted for advice for clearly a problem of sorts, yet you took your horse to a show when you know he has issues, which still need addressing.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Just come back to this thread blimey are people always as judgemental on here when asked for advice? There seems to have been a lot of supposition going on.

Oh and what's a troll? I thought it was a fictional thing from Billy Goats Gruff but seen it mentioned a few times on here.

Isn't it one of those rubber weird figures with colourful hair from the 70's?? Sadly I am old enough to remember them well.

 

[ter21wat]

he is 4 not 3... i think people are failing to read properly and just making things up

Apologies, I had miss read your very first post (which is a very long way down the line now having read every post on this thread!) where you said you have a 16.2 4yr old bought as a 3 year old. And to be fair 3 or 4 I dont really doesnt make that much difference in this situ

I was not trying to be rude or unhelpful I just thought that after you posted "he gets to go out, but weather wise it may be for only an hour, but hes doing something in hand monst days even if its 5 mins up the road and back" it implied that he might only be out his stable for 1hr 5 mins each day, weather depending, which with the weather the way it has been lately could have been for a while. I know my mare goes loopyloo even when just being stabled overnight and becomes very, very difficult to work with.....therefore she is out 24/7 and is much happier for it. You posted on this forum for advice and that was my suggestion. If I upset you I apologise. I can only go on the information provided by you in your posts.

 

[Persephone]

I have to agree I read the turnout situation the same way!

Ijust wonderJH if he has been beaten before, don't you think the fact you often seem to have a whip to hand might be worrying for him?

Obviously that's not the whole problem, but if you are not holding a whip you cannot use it in anger. I mean throwing a whip at him? What will that achieve?

ETS hope your hand is feeling better

 

[Achinghips]

christ, a small room? this horse is in a 30 foot by 20 foot barn what on earth do u think of people that keep horses in a 12 x 12 room

You said he was turned out for about an hour a day with some work even if just for 5 mins, most stables are 12 x 12 and that may be considered big by some. I dont know many with a stable 30 foot by 20 foot, if you had stipulated this and provided further information in your post, misunderstandings would not occur.

However, many people here appear to be offering good advice that you asked for about your handling (such as myself), the age of rider, and suitability of a show envionment. This is all based on information you have provided.

 

[Lucyad]

for all of u going poor horse etc, i think not, this lad was a bargy ***** when i got him... that grooms were scared to lead. hes very polite on the ground, leads well... i coyldnt get near him with a bridle, he was scared, he would shake get the runs etc.
my handling of him has got him as far as he has come, he is still different with other people, but that wil come in time.
small things we can now do, easy to bridle, wash with a hose etc
re the whip.. he is not a horse u can jab and say stand.. he goes up (this can be related to his time before me and the use of chains/chifneys etc)so with him one smack and a stand does the job, when hes done asked he is rewarded.

I would still be thinking 'poor horse' TBH - after all you say imediately after (above) that he was scared, would shake and get the runs when presented with a bridle - OK you seem to have made improvements since then, which is great, but it still sounds to me like a confused scared defensive animal lashing out and throwing himself to the ground because it is all he has got left to express how is feeling about how he is being handled, rather than 'naughtyness'.

Things that jump out to me is the use of a whip to move a horse when in an enclosed space therefore not allowing him to get away from it - also use of a smack as a cue to stand (in quote above?) - not sure how that is intended to work? Also confusion about how to reward, already picked u by other posters earlier in the thread. Lots of good advice posted. Shame about your defensive attitude.

 

[pip6]

once again i will point out that he is not a nasty horse]

But you say he is nasty even in the title of the thread?

 

[jools123]

no, its his way of having a hissy fit after being washed he doesnt roll but goes around liturally throwing him self down.

i have been watching this post for a while.
am i the only one (sorry if i have missed something) who's horse hates being wet-when the water runs down her back legs she stamps her feet, after a bath (which she seems to enjoy) she will roll and roll and roll in her stable or field-if she comes in wet from the rain she rubs herself all over the haynet wiith great enthusiasm and then throws herself on the floor time ad time again- after 25yrs of working with horses i dont think of this as unusual behaviour and have never known a horses to be brat like (thats just my kids)

 

[Footlights]

I have been watching this thread with interest too.

I just wanted to add that my horse can be nervous/aggressive in some situations. If I EVER smacked him with a whip, yet alone in an enclosed space, I am 100% sure I wouldn't be here to tell you about it.

The only way that has worked for him is for me to be relaxed and calm at all times, even raising a hand to him can turn him into a wreck. I suspect your horse is feeling very anxious and defensive, and the only way he knows he is going to be safe is if he stands up for himself.

I agree with others that turn out and start over may be your best option. He may even need new environment and owner to get over this.

 

[Shilasdair]

I've just read this thread - and am impressed by how many experts there are out there.

Most of them appear to own the sort of horse which an explosion of dynamite won't upset, and are frankly abysmal riders (if their photographs/signatures are anything to go by).

Doesn't stop them pontificating about things/people/horses they know nothing about.

If you don't know what you're talking about/have no constructive - and detailed - suggestions like AengusOg then shut the duck up.

Jhoward - hope your hand is healing. I'm also called a troll frequently. Clearly I am THE most covert troll in history, with 20k posts and no infractions but there's always the odd intellectually challenged poster willing to sling a few 'troll' names about.
S

 

[Ibblebibble]

so all is good then JH, since your first post the horse has changed from nasty to absolutely fine and you don't actually need any advice from anyone at all?!, marvellous, we'll all just stfu then shall we and leave you to it


oh and Shils, you are a troll, but the forum pet one ,here to keep us entertained on dull days, keep up the good trolling

 

[Persephone]

I have been watching this thread with interest too.

I just wanted to add that my horse can be nervous/aggressive in some situations. If I EVER smacked him with a whip, yet alone in an enclosed space, I am 100% sure I wouldn't be here to tell you about it.

The only way that has worked for him is for me to be relaxed and calm at all times, even raising a hand to him can turn him into a wreck. I suspect your horse is feeling very anxious and defensive, and the only way he knows he is going to be safe is if he stands up for himself.

I agree with others that turn out and start over may be your best option. He may even need new environment and owner to get over this.

Mine is exactly like that Footlights, apart from raising a hand, she would 't blink an eye! This filly is the most challenging I have had, and it has been a steep remembering curve

I have been reared at, double barelled and plain knocked over and squashed against a wall! It's not nice having to be ready to get away from a 17hh 3 y/o it's been horrible, but slowly and firmly has done it and now she is an absolute pleasure to be around. I don't do anything unless I feel calm and relaxed, seems to work for us.

OP perhaps the horse does need a change of personality handling him? I guess you must be feeling a bit of apprehension as you never know what you are going to get , I bet he's picking that up from you too.

 

[0310Star]

so all is good then JH, since your first post the horse has changed from nasty to absolutely fine and you don't actually need any advice from anyone at all?!, marvellous, we'll all just stfu then shall we and leave you to it


oh and Shils, you are a troll, but the forum pet one ,here to keep us entertained on dull days, keep up the good trolling

Agreed!!

 

[Queenbee]

I've just read this thread - and am impressed by how many experts there are out there.

Most of them appear to own the sort of horse which an explosion of dynamite won't upset, and are frankly abysmal riders (if their photographs/signatures are anything to go by).

Doesn't stop them pontificating about things/people/horses they know nothing about.

If you don't know what you're talking about/have no constructive - and detailed - suggestions like AengusOg then shut the duck up.

Jhoward - hope your hand is healing. I'm also called a troll frequently. Clearly I am THE most covert troll in history, with 20k posts and no infractions but there's always the odd intellectually challenged poster willing to sling a few 'troll' names about.
S

^^Troll, TROLL, TRRRRROOOOOLLL!!!^^^^


whoops, nope, just a deamon

JH, hope you're feeling better hun x

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

No point in posting if you didn't want an answer. You're the one that was seeking help. You've given your horse very mixed signals from the get go. Your fault. You nit pick at him with the whip and are unsure of any timing or feel. Quite a few horses really wouldn't care and just deal with it. This guy is not one of those.

Like I said before, you want to be the best horseman you can be? Admit your mistakes and start thinking more about the horse than your ego. Ask for help. That's how people get good. Not telling everyone who didn't agree with them to sod off because they haven't been helpful.

Terri

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

I've just read this thread - and am impressed by how many experts there are out there.

Most of them appear to own the sort of horse which an explosion of dynamite won't upset, and are frankly abysmal riders (if their photographs/signatures are anything to go by).

Doesn't stop them pontificating about things/people/horses they know nothing about.

If you don't know what you're talking about/have no constructive - and detailed - suggestions like AengusOg then shut the duck up.

Jhoward - hope your hand is healing. I'm also called a troll frequently. Clearly I am THE most covert troll in history, with 20k posts and no infractions but there's always the odd intellectually challenged poster willing to sling a few 'troll' names about.
S

I don't think the majority of people who commented were saying their horses were bombproof, and to be honest taking cheap shots re people's signatures is rather childish, many many people have been around horses for 40+ years, doesn't mean they have been doing it right for 40+ years.
JH asked for opinions and she got opinions, so perhaps you should shut the duck up?

For some reason people creep up your bottom on here, have no idea why? Do you? I doubt you respect them for it either?

I would like to add that I have owned horses on and off for 25 years, do I know a lot ?? Not really, I have recently taken on a wild youngster, he has taught me so much, I have spent hours just being with him, treating him with just kindness, I know when he is cornered he will jump 5 bar gates, so I treat him with respect, he is currently learning manners in the stable, if I acted suddenly or got after him, I would likely be killed, I frequently ask questions on here that would deem me VERY stupid, but I don't care I am learning and I take everyone's advice on board. I will NEVER be an expert, it's not possible for one human being to see enough horses in a lifetime to be taught enough to be called an expert!

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Shils, don't know who you're talking to but I start horses for a living, galloped at the track in the states for years, and have been on over 3000 individual horses. And yet if I feel I may not be doing right for a horse I have no problems letting my husband take over or learning how to be better. I don't have an ego issue and make sure that it actually is all about the horse.

I have warmbloods and Thoroughbreds. I'm actually the person that is proud when I can let anybody handle or ride. That means I've done my job well.

Terri

 

[Shilasdair]

I don't think the majority of people who commented were saying their horses were bombproof, and to be honest taking cheap shots re people's signatures is rather childish, many many people have been around horses for 40+ years, doesn't mean they have been doing it right for 40+ years.
JH asked for opinions and she got opinions, so perhaps you should shut the duck up?

For some reason people creep up your bottom on here, have no idea why? Do you? I doubt you respect them for it either?

I would like to add that I have owned horses on and off for 25 years, do I know a lot ?? Not really, I have recently taken on a wild youngster, he has taught me so much, I have spent hours just being with him, treating him with just kindness, I know when he is cornered he will jump 5 bar gates, so I treat him with respect, he is currently learning manners in the stable, if I acted suddenly or got after him, I would likely be killed, I frequently ask questions on here that would deem me VERY stupid, but I don't care I am learning and I take everyone's advice on board. I will NEVER be an expert, it's not possible for one human being to see enough horses in a lifetime to be taught enough to be called an expert!

Sorry, I lost the will to read your post due to its excessive tedium.
If anyone would like to summarise the key points concisely, I'll give it another go?
S

 

[Shilasdair]

Shils, don't know who you're talking to but I start horses for a living, galloped at the track in the states for years, and have been on over 3000 individual horses. And yet if I feel I may not be doing right for a horse I have no problems letting my husband take over or learning how to be better. I don't have an ego issue and make sure that it actually is all about the horse.

I have warmbloods and Thoroughbreds. I'm actually the person that is proud when I can let anybody handle or ride. That means I've done my job well.

Terri

I prostrate myself before your expertise.
S

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Sorry, I lost the will to read your post due to its excessive tedium.
If anyone would like to summarise the key points concisely, I'll give it another go?
S

I will........ ,one word ok?

Arrogance!

 

[hayinamanger]

Gosh, Devonshire dumpling, you are so brave!

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

And you should darling because I personally don't see how it's a funny matter but to each his own.

And we wonder why horses get messed up in the first place. Not hard to see here that's for sure.

Terri