Horse turning nasty.

[ter21wat]

I've just read this thread - and am impressed by how many experts there are out there.

Most of them appear to own the sort of horse which an explosion of dynamite won't upset, and are frankly abysmal riders (if their photographs/signatures are anything to go by).

Doesn't stop them pontificating about things/people/horses they know nothing about.

If you don't know what you're talking about/have no constructive - and detailed - suggestions like AengusOg then shut the duck up.

Jhoward - hope your hand is healing. I'm also called a troll frequently. Clearly I am THE most covert troll in history, with 20k posts and no infractions but there's always the odd intellectually challenged poster willing to sling a few 'troll' names about.
S

1. troll
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

Seems to me the only person professing to be an expert here is you with your amazing ability to judge horses tempraments and peoples riding skills by simply looking at their little pics and signatures!

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Gosh, Devonshire dumpling, you are so brave!

Not a case of being brave, some people are so rude on here and seem to have a following, I just don't understand it.

I actually really like and respect JH, they have always been really kind to me, and given me loads of advice, but this time I think they have got it wrong.

JH I really hope you are feeling much better, my daughter has just broken her elbow and had an operation at Wonford, and has pins in her elbow, so know what you are going through, I hope they treated you as well as they did my daughter X

 

[Shilasdair]

I will........ ,one word ok?

Arrogance!

Aw, I wouldn't say you were arrogant. Misguided perhaps, and longwinded for sure.
S

 

[Shilasdair]

And you should darling because I personally don't see how it's a funny matter but to each his own.

And we wonder why horses get messed up in the first place. Not hard to see here that's for sure.

Terri

'Darling' - oh, I feel so patronised (seriously you will have to try harder).

And I really don't think that my disagreeing with your self-proclaimed and pretty fantastic expertise on the interwebz is the reason that 'horses get messed up in the first place'.

Ok, petal?
S

 

[Shilasdair]

Not a case of being brave, some people are so rude on here and seem to have a following, I just don't understand it.

I actually really like and respect JH, they have always been really kind to me, and given me loads of advice, but this time I think they have got it wrong.

JH I really hope you are feeling much better, my daughter has just broken her elbow and had an operation at Wonford, and has pins in her elbow, so know what you are going through, I hope they treated you as well as they did my daughter X

I so agree - these rude people who name call are terrible, aren't they.
Oh...wait...
S

 

[hayinamanger]

Now, now, let's all play nicely.

 

[Shilasdair]

1. troll
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

Seems to me the only person professing to be an expert here is you with your amazing ability to judge horses tempraments and peoples riding skills by simply looking at their little pics and signatures!

Hello newbie.
Thanks for proving my point so eloquently.
S

 

[Shilasdair]

Now, now, let's all play nicely.

Have you ever had past life regression?
I'll bet you knitted beside the guillotine in the Revolution.
S

 

[marlyclay]

Well putting aside all the bitching and crap that seems to go on in this forum nowadays,I would like to return to something that was mentioned in the original post.
Horse was not particularly difficult until he injured himself and then the problems seemed to surface. This makes me think that his behavior may be due to pain that has not as yet been discovered. My friends horse once had a silly little accident where she trod on her reins ,pulling back sharply and breaking them. The next day she was stiff,the following day she refused to let her rider mount intacf shed her off!

 

[marlyclay]

Oh bl@@dy phone I hadn't finished my post......I shall continue.....
My friends horses behavior changed dramaticly since the reins were broken. It turned out she had broken her ribs in the incident of pulling back when she trod on the reins. Freak accident that was only found out after a trip to rossdales. She had become unrideable because the ribs were obviously causing great pain when saddled. Poor girl the only way she could tell us was to bronc!

 

[Queenbee]

No point in posting if you didn't want an answer. You're the one that was seeking help. You've given your horse very mixed signals from the get go. Your fault. You nit pick at him with the whip and are unsure of any timing or feel. Quite a few horses really wouldn't care and just deal with it. This guy is not one of those.

Like I said before, you want to be the best horseman you can be? Admit your mistakes and start thinking more about the horse than your ego. Ask for help. That's how people get good. Not telling everyone who didn't agree with them to sod off because they haven't been helpful.

Terri

I think that this thread illustrates that we can never stop learning. Personally I do not think it is about the OP's ego at all. I believe it illustrates that what may be a good approach for one horse, is not with another. Some horses can not be told, and should not, others (my boy for example) needs a foot put down, but this has to be tempered with sensitivity and an eye for when it is appropriate. I do not think that there is a horse man or woman in this world that hasn't tried one approach and another and another and have them flung in their face and felt for at least a while completely at a loss and had to go back to the drawing board and reassess. Furthermore, who hasn't become really frustrated and ranted over the attitude or behaviour of a tit of a horse, and then said the next day... its not as bad as all that? There were days when I have questioned the suitability of horses for this world... the next day after a sleep, things often seem much better. Far better to come on here and rant about what a deamon beast from hell your horse is than take a bad day out on your horse.

 

[Persephone]

Well putting aside all the bitching and crap that seems to go on in this forum nowadays,I would like to return to something that was mentioned in the original post.
Horse was not particularly difficult until he injured himself and then the problems seemed to surface. This makes me think that his behavior may be due to pain that has not as yet been discovered. My friends horse once had a silly little accident where she trod on her reins ,pulling back sharply and breaking them. The next day she was stiff,the following day she refused to let her rider mount intacf shed her off!

Or it could be in part that the the horse had to be in due to the injury, and the lack of turnout not being resolved due to the weather or whatever was the reason.

 

[Shilasdair]

Oh bl@@dy phone I hadn't finished my post......I shall continue.....
My friends horses behavior changed dramaticly since the reins were broken. It turned out she had broken her ribs in the incident of pulling back when she trod on the reins. Freak accident that was only found out after a trip to rossdales. She had become unrideable because the ribs were obviously causing great pain when saddled. Poor girl the only way she could tell us was to bronc!

Glad I'm not the only one whose phone is possessed - every second text I send is a correction of an autocorrect with 'ducking iphone'.

My earlier posts were trying to point out that it's perfectly possible to give constructive advice (as you have done) without having to slate the OP (who is just recovering from an op, after all).

I didn't look at anyone's riding pics or signatures so no call to be paranoid, but a little kindness wouldn't come amiss in your posts (after all, none of you have liked it when I've turned daemonic on you above).

Point made. I'm off to stoke the fires in Hades ready for the next barefoot lot/lawyers/accountants/Olympic planners.
S

 

[Moomin1]

I've just read this thread - and am impressed by how many experts there are out there.

Most of them appear to own the sort of horse which an explosion of dynamite won't upset, and are frankly abysmal riders (if their photographs/signatures are anything to go by).

Doesn't stop them pontificating about things/people/horses they know nothing about.

If you don't know what you're talking about/have no constructive - and detailed - suggestions like AengusOg then shut the duck up.

Jhoward - hope your hand is healing. I'm also called a troll frequently. Clearly I am THE most covert troll in history, with 20k posts and no infractions but there's always the odd intellectually challenged poster willing to sling a few 'troll' names about.
S

Has nobody else spotted the hypocrisy in this post?!!

Also, JH has not had a heart transplant for goodness sakes, she's had an op on her finger, hardly something which requires people to walk on egg shells and not speak their mind is it?!!

I notice that you have not offered any constructive advice of your own as yet?

 

[jhoward]

Mine is exactly like that Footlights, apart from raising a hand, she would 't blink an eye! This filly is the most challenging I have had, and it has been a steep remembering curve

I have been reared at, double barelled and plain knocked over and squashed against a wall! It's not nice having to be ready to get away from a 17hh 3 y/o it's been horrible, but slowly and firmly has done it and now she is an absolute pleasure to be around. I don't do anything unless I feel calm and relaxed, seems to work for us.

OP perhaps the horse does need a change of personality handling him? I guess you must be feeling a bit of apprehension as you never know what you are going to get , I bet he's picking that up from you too.

the whip got lobbed at his butt to get him to move out of the way of the gate i needed to shut asap, it wasnt done in anger .. but as i said to get him to move forward out of the way

once again i will point out that he is not a nasty horse]

But you say he is nasty even in the title of the thread?

TURNING I SAID TURNING he is not nasty in the general sence of the word has been getting worse/more freqant hence TURNING and not is nasty.

so all is good then JH, since your first post the horse has changed from nasty to absolutely fine and you don't actually need any advice from anyone at all?!, marvellous, we'll all just stfu then shall we and leave you to it


oh and Shils, you are a troll, but the forum pet one ,here to keep us entertained on dull days, keep up the good trolling

please do seeing as your being about as much help as a chocolate teapot right now

Well putting aside all the bitching and crap that seems to go on in this forum nowadays,I would like to return to something that was mentioned in the original post.
Horse was not particularly difficult until he injured himself and then the problems seemed to surface. This makes me think that his behavior may be due to pain that has not as yet been discovered. My friends horse once had a silly little accident where she trod on her reins ,pulling back sharply and breaking them. The next day she was stiff,the following day she refused to let her rider mount intacf shed her off!

just to summerise with this point.

i bought horse in june 2012. 2 days after owning him he booted someone when she went to get him in... she did not have my permission to do so
after she got herself up horse got a hiding... now before u all yell... i was not there, she knew he was difficult, and did not have my permission

up until december this year he lived out, with the odd day/night in if weather very bad etc. we then moved to a livery yard and due to there rules he was in .. with as much to as possible, but the paddock was pure mud and im not happy with a horse going out on frozen/wet mud, he got worked too as part of moving to yard was so i had help to get him broken and access to a school.

weather better, summer paddocks used horse back out.. then in april due to a livery leaving all the fencing off, other horses got in with mine and he had a wound to the front leg.. 10 days on box rest with a tiny bit of turnout .

ive recently moved him to a friends farm, as the livery yard to be honest was a shambles. its wet incase no one had noticed weve had the wettest june in history, i dont see the point in my horse standing for hours in wet mud eating hayledge, id rather he was in, and had a short spell out to have a roll and buck if he wants. 5 minutes work, meens hes been led out on the roads, or long reined.. anything to keep his brain thinking, i do not have a scool so my options are limited

now i wanted suggestions on why a horse would turn nasty, few people seem to have the intelligence to answer in such a way,, to thoose that have thank you... one of the reasons i wanted fresh ideas was i know the horse is tricky, and i know the sire was nasty, so wanted to nip it in the butt now.

 

[pip6]

Better not mention I worked on Olympic road network for 9 months then

 

[jhoward]

Has nobody else spotted the hypocrisy in this post?!!

Also, JH has not had a heart transplant for goodness sakes, she's had an op on her finger, hardly something which requires people to walk on egg shells and not speak their mind is it?!!

I notice that you have not offered any constructive advice of your own as yet?

sorry to be pedantic here, but actully i could never have use of part of my hand again. not really just a finger op im affraid

 

[jhoward]

Better not mention I worked on Olympic road network for 9 months then

lofl theres always one

 

[Shilasdair]

Has nobody else spotted the hypocrisy in this post?!!

Also, JH has not had a heart transplant for goodness sakes, she's had an op on her finger, hardly something which requires people to walk on egg shells and not speak their mind is it?!!

I notice that you have not offered any constructive advice of your own as yet?

Oh do read the posts before you comment. Sigh. Do I have to explain everything to you?
Somehow I'm not surprised that you are giving a medical opinion - your expertise does indeed cover many fields (both literally and metaphorically).
And regarding constructive advice - I use all sorts of media - you'd be amazed!
S

ETA There's nothing more pathetic than posters who I have criticised in the past looking for any random moment to disagree with me on unrelated threads.

 

[Moomin1]

sorry to be pedantic here, but actully i could never have use of part of my hand again. not really just a finger op im affraid

I'm sorry to hear that JH.

I still don't think it's any reason for people to pussyfoot around and not speak their mind.

I am confused why you aren't willing to take on board what people are saying - nobody has said anything personally nasty about you. People are commenting on what the reasons could be behind his behaviour, and the majority seem to get the impression it is something with the way in which you have handled him. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you.

I do hope you don't get injured any further, and take things easy!

 

[Moomin1]

Oh do read the posts before you comment. Sigh. Do I have to explain everything to you?
Somehow I'm not surprised that you are giving a medical opinion - your expertise does indeed cover many fields (both literally and metaphorically).
And regarding constructive advice - I use all sorts of media - you'd be amazed!
S

ETA There's nothing more pathetic than posters who I have criticised in the past looking for any random moment to disagree with me on unrelated threads.

Ha ha!!! You hardly have to be a doctor do differentiate between a heart transplant and an op on a bloody finger!! I bust my toe badly the other week after an altercation with a coffee table but I didn't expect people to be nice to me just because of it!

I am very sorry I am member of this forum with the freedom of speech that equals yours and everyone elses' Shils, it must really grate on you.

 

[Shilasdair]

Ha ha!!! You hardly have to be a doctor do differentiate between a heart transplant and an op on a bloody finger!! I bust my toe badly the other week after an altercation with a coffee table but I didn't expect people to be nice to me just because of it!

I am very sorry I am member of this forum with the freedom of speech that equals yours and everyone elses' Shils, it must really grate on you.

On the contrary, Moo, your posts make me feel good about myself.
Keep them up.
S

 

[jhoward]

I'm sorry to hear that JH.

I still don't think it's any reason for people to pussyfoot around and not speak their mind.

I am confused why you aren't willing to take on board what people are saying - nobody has said anything personally nasty about you. People are commenting on what the reasons could be behind his behaviour, and the majority seem to get the impression it is something with the way in which you have handled him. Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you.

I do hope you don't get injured any further, and take things easy!

can u please point out where exactley i have rebuffed any ones advice?

unfortunatly ive had to spend my time correcting people that cant be bothered to read, and have to keep explaning. horses age, is isnt stuck in a stable etc.

.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I think that this thread illustrates that we can never stop learning. Personally I do not think it is about the OP's ego at all. I believe it illustrates that what may be a good approach for one horse, is not with another. Some horses can not be told, and should not, others (my boy for example) needs a foot put down, but this has to be tempered with sensitivity and an eye for when it is appropriate. I do not think that there is a horse man or woman in this world that hasn't tried one approach and another and another and have them flung in their face and felt for at least a while completely at a loss and had to go back to the drawing board and reassess. Furthermore, who hasn't become really frustrated and ranted over the attitude or behaviour of a tit of a horse, and then said the next day... its not as bad as all that? There were days when I have questioned the suitability of horses for this world... the next day after a sleep, things often seem much better. Far better to come on here and rant about what a deamon beast from hell your horse is than take a bad day out on your horse.

Been there, done that too! Wonderful post

 

[Spudlet]

Ok, so that's epic. Now, at the risk of getting flamed - I don't see how anyone could help without actually seeing the horse themselves. It sounds like things have been escalating for a while, with things getting more and more confrontational, until unfortunately eventually someone got hurt - I really hope your hand recovers ok and you get as much functionality back as possible.

I think, FWIW, turning him away is a very good idea, as it will allow both of you time to take a deep breath rather than being locked into this pattern of confrontation. I would suggest that you research trainers and get someone in to help when you bring him back into work - not becuse you're not up to the job or whatever, but because a second pair of eyes and fresh perspective might really help. It can be easy to get a bit of tunnel vision when dealing with longterm problems - a new person might have a different take on things and also won't be emotionally involved, which can be a hindrance with your own animals. Doesn't have to be one of the celeb trainers, but someone who knows their stuff and can help you both.

I hope your hand gets better as I said but you never know - this enforced break might turn out for the best in a strange way.

* waits to have all inadequacies pointed out to her as payback for venturing an opinion*

 

[Moomin1]

On the contrary, Moo, your posts make me feel good about myself.
Keep them up.
S

I'm glad I brighten your days!

 

[Armas]

I think that this thread illustrates that we can never stop learning. Personally I do not think it is about the OP's ego at all. I believe it illustrates that what may be a good approach for one horse, is not with another. Some horses can not be told, and should not, others (my boy for example) needs a foot put down, but this has to be tempered with sensitivity and an eye for when it is appropriate. I do not think that there is a horse man or woman in this world that hasn't tried one approach and another and another and have them flung in their face and felt for at least a while completely at a loss and had to go back to the drawing board and reassess. Furthermore, who hasn't become really frustrated and ranted over the attitude or behaviour of a tit of a horse, and then said the next day... its not as bad as all that? There were days when I have questioned the suitability of horses for this world... the next day after a sleep, things often seem much better. Far better to come on here and rant about what a deamon beast from hell your horse is than take a bad day out on your horse.

As above. ...
Now WTF people the OP has not just stubbed her pigging toe she has seriously damaged her hand and now has to have surgery and a possible pin insert give her a break. The OP has been rather busy trying to fix her hand and thus has not been able to respond sooner.
OP seems to have taken on board the posts and has only commented to correct errors where people have not read the OP !
My best wishes JH I hope your hand heals soon and you manage to get to the bottom of the issues with your horse.

 

[jhoward]

lol, s.. i do agree the lady i had out is a well repected nh lady, it just didnt go well. and imo upset the horse.
i got her out after seeing her work with others and ive been aware that i had one shot at getting this horse broken.

luckily, horse does love his work and just before leaving the livery yard he was being sat on.. without a hitch... phew.

any way enforced break.. my vets no certin types of livery so will talk to them, as i cant drive/etc for feck nos how long.

a couple of people on hho have met the horse and im sure they are of the opinion he really is not a generally nasty horse.

 

[cbmcts]

I think, if he was mine I'd chuck him out in a nice stable herd until spring (hopefully the ground will dry up soon) - he's had a lot of changes, traumas and moves in the past little while which might explain his narkiness, some horses just don't cope well with moves, let alone the box rest and injuries...

The one thing I will say is, if at all possible don't let anyone handle him. He reminds me a lot of a friends horse who's natural reaction to a wallop, shout (anything he sees as an 'unfair' correction) is met with a full on fight. He's the type of horse that will follow you through fire if asked nicely and after being a really horrible youngster has turned into a very nice, useful horse who is easy to do unless you're the vet

Hope your hand recovers soon...

 

[PolarSkye]

I will........ ,one word ok?

Arrogance!

This made me do this . . . . . . and then made me do this . . .

P