Taking horse back off loan

[ponynutz]

Keep us updated - alarm bells are ringing slightly for me but not enough to think there's any evasion for definite yet.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

I went to see him today….long story…mentioned moving him when I was there (as expected it went down like a ton of bricks) and then when I got home due to something she had breeched in contract I sent a message. It got very nasty and I was sent a tirade of absolutely disgusting messages telling me I’m a terrible person, terrible horse woman, she feels sorry for the horse and karma will get me blah blah. I chose to ignore it and be to the point and it got worse with her telling me she is blocking me for the remainder of the notice (she chose not to take up the share) and to contact someone else if I wanted to get in touch.

I am exhausted, drained and flabbergasted tbh that discussing a contractual breech and ending a loan (well not exactly ending it because I offered her to continue at my place) would cause such nasty behaviour.

I will deal with everything tomorrow as she is refusing to pay for transport to get him back to me as per our contract. In fact, she threatened me twice with the police for A messaging her in the first place and B expecting her to transport him back to be as per the contract she signed.

Who knew that taking a horse back would be so traumatic.

I know some will say there are two sides to a story, but in this case there isn’t. And I have all written evidence and a contract to prove it.

 

[bonny]

I went to see him today….long story…mentioned moving him when I was there (as expected it went down like a ton of bricks) and then when I got home due to something she had breeched in contract I sent a message. It got very nasty and I was sent a tirade of absolutely disgusting messages telling me I’m a terrible person, terrible horse woman, she feels sorry for the horse and karma will get me blah blah. I chose to ignore it and be to the point and it got worse with her telling me she is blocking me for the remainder of the notice (she chose not to take up the share) and to contact someone else if I wanted to get in touch.

I am exhausted, drained and flabbergasted tbh that discussing a contractual breech and ending a loan (well not exactly ending it because I offered her to continue at my place) would cause such nasty behaviour.

I will deal with everything tomorrow as she is refusing to pay for transport to get him back to me as per our contract. In fact, she threatened me twice with the police for A messaging her in the first place and B expecting her to transport him back to be as per the contract she signed.

Who knew that taking a horse back would be so traumatic.

Just go and get him tomorrow and then you won’t need to deal with all that hassle.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would go tomorrow and get the horse she sounds unstable and totally untrustworthy.

 

[Equi]

As said grab him tomorrow no matter what. Don’t trust her not to move him or stop looking after him in revenge/leave you with a big livery bill.

 

[Michen]

I would absolutely go get him tomorrow. I would not trust her now with the horse.

 

[Squeak]

Agree with the others, I would just go and get him.

 

[Nari]

If she's breached the contract go and get him today, as early as you can. Take a copy of the contract with you, your phone with the messages on, and at least one calm but assertive friend with you. Whatever rother plans you may have can be cancelled, get him back while you still know where he is and also before she has much chance to assemble a group of supporters to make life difficult. She says she's blocked you so no point in trying to get in touch to tell her you're collecting today, what a pity!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Don't fanny about fussing about who will pay the transporter and other minute contract details, just go get the horse NOW. You are being negligent if you don't.

I posted this on your other thread in May 22 about this same horse and loanee.

If any loaner 'gave me a mouthful' then I would be collecting the horse straight away.

In fact they did, and I did - brushes were being hurled across the yard at me - and thank goodness I called time when I did, or the horse would have been even more broken than it soon turned out she already was .

I was back with my trailer collecting my horse within 2 hours of the loan breaking down.

 

[ycbm]

I can't understand why you discussed a contract breach with her. If the contract breach was enough of a welfare issue to mention then the horse should have been collected immediately, as there is little hope it will change while in a notice period. If it wasn't enough of a welfare issue to take the horse immediately, then it could only inflame things, as it did.

You need to fetch the horse today. He can't safely be on loan to someone who won't communicate with you.
.

 

[Gallop_Away]

*Insert "well that escalated quickly" meme here*

Go and get your horse TODAY. I did feel a little sorry for the loaner I'll admit but after that update! Good lord!! Just go and get your horse.

 

[SantaVera]

do let us know when your horse is back with you.

 

[southerncomfort]

As above, and call non emergency police number, tell them the circumstances and that you think things may turn violent while you're there.

It probably won't, but it did when my dad went to collect the pony we put out on loan. The police were already aware of the circumstances and arrived quickly.

Be in no doubt that she will likely be making plans to hide the horse somewhere so you need to act fast.

 

[lannerch]

You seriously expected her to pay for the transport to bring him back, when she’s hurting . That’s a contract breech I would forgive. Have some compassion.

 

[AmyMay]

I wouldn’t pay for the transport either if the owner was ending the loan. I would if I were the loaner ending the loan.

 

[splashgirl45]

I think to expect her to pay to return him when you are ending the loan would get my back up as well. When I ended my loan due to my physical situation and not due to horse problem, I made arrangements and took her to the yard myself , unloaded her and put her in her stable, then had a little cry with just me and her. Horse owner understood and left me alone . But if owner had decided to end loan she would have come and got her..why mention breach of contract if you were taking horse back anyway, I think you need to go over and collect horse a s a p

 

[JBM]

I think the reason op mentioned breach of contact is the notice period
If the contract isn’t broken she would have to give a month? (Not sure) notice and horse would stay with her longer
If contract is broken I can understand her mentioning it as she can now take the horse back today
Even tho the loaner should pay for transport the contact is already broken so I don’t imagine her upholding that

 

[lannerch]

But if the refusal to pay for transport back , is the breach of contract then that can’t be proved before the month is up and the horse is due to go back so at this stage may not even a breach and certainly not a reason to take the horse back now. Sounds heartless to me, especially as she will have paid a months livery upfront and need to give her livery a months notice.
I find the lack of compassion in the whole thing to be very sad.
And I’m not surprised the loaner got upset and a little bit nasty , with a shock like that I would too.
Unless a serious breach of contract has occurred then at least give the loaner the month left with the horse by contract she is entitled to.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Hi everyone.

thank you all for your messages. Last night was a nightmare with constant awful messages being sent to me, which I did not reply to. I am just sorting my life out and will be collecting him ASAP.
I’m not bothered about the payment for transport, just wanted to mention it.

I do appreciate all your messages and advice. I’m just in a bit of a state.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

But if the refusal to pay for transport back , is the breach of contract then that can’t be proved before the month is up and the horse is due to go back so at this stage may not even a breach and certainly not a reason to take the horse back now. Sounds heartless to me, especially as she will have paid a months livery upfront and need to give her livery a months notice.
I find the lack of compassion in the whole thing to be very sad.
And I’m not surprised the loaner got upset and a little bit nasty , with a shock like that I would too.
Unless a serious breach of contract has occurred then at least give the loaner the month left with the horse by contract she is entitled to.

i actually gave her 60 days notice, which is more than enough and offered her to continue with him at my yard. I was very fair. The breech was the fact that he was on a strict hacking only loan and she had been having lessons etc. which was not the life he was enjoying at the time.

had this been discussed with me as well as a few minor other things it may have been a little different.

 

[Red-1]

I think you have been very fair. The breach of type of work is important as she didn't agree to cease the unauthorised activity, and therefore you are quite right to end the loan immediately. I would book a transporter asap, today if possible on a hire box. As someone else has said, she has said no to contact her so I would simply turn up.

I would forget the transport cost. The contract is broken and horse is coming home.

 

[Barton Bounty]

i actually gave her 60 days notice, which is more than enough and offered her to continue with him at my yard. I was very fair. The breech was the fact that he was on a strict hacking only loan and she had been having lessons etc. which was not the life he was enjoying at the time.

had this been discussed with me as well as a few minor other things it may have been a little different.

And the shoes!
You are entitled to have your horse back without any breach anyway, please dont give her feelings anymore thought as she clearly wasnt thinking about the horse when trundling about in lessons when she knew fine well! You are absolutely doing the right thing and if anything I think your too nice about it ?

 

[lannerch]

i actually gave her 60 days notice, which is more than enough and offered her to continue with him at my yard. I was very fair. The breech was the fact that he was on a strict hacking only loan and she had been having lessons etc. which was not the life he was enjoying at the time.

had this been discussed with me as well as a few minor other things it may have been a little different.

In that case I apologise, you’re right that is fair . And the contract breach not major, I would actually be quite pleased someone was having lessons on my loan horse as even if we only hack there is nearly always room for improvement, but agree it should have been discussed first.
I still can’t believe the lack of compassion with the posters saying take your horse back now . Heartless! And no you are not entitled to collect a horse on loan with a contract now if there is not a contract breach, you have to give notice!

 

[ihatework]

Just go and pick the horse up today. If your account is accurate, the loaner is not stable, you have no idea what she is capable of doing between now and when you get around to collecting.

 

[ihatework]

In that case I apologise, you’re right that is fair . And the contract breach not major, I would actually be quite pleased someone was having lessons on my loan horse as even if we only hack there is nearly always room for improvement.
I still can’t believe the lack of compassion with the posters saying take your horse back now . Heartless! And no you are not entitled to collect a horse on loan with a contract now if there is not a contract breach, you have to give notice!

Just going on face value - if I loaned a horse specifically for hacking it would be for the horses welfare or quality of life. A loaner then having lessons is a blatant breach of contract. I am generally a poster happy to play devils advocate on most things, but in this situation I would not hesitate to retrieve my horse with zero notice.

 

[lannerch]

Just going on face value - if I loaned a horse specifically for hacking it would be for the horses welfare or quality of life. A loaner then having lessons is a blatant breach of contract. I am generally a poster happy to play devils advocate on most things, but in this situation I would not hesitate to retrieve my horse with zero notice.

I disagree but as I said when I amended my post I do agree it should have been discussed first .

 

[JBM]

Usually if a contract is set up to exclude certain activities it’s for good reason
I loaned my mare out with the condition she wouldn’t be jumping if I found out they were jumping her I would be livid
It sounds as if she’s acting like this horse is her own and she thinks she can do whatever she likes with them

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Right, home now from my other boys.

I have coffee and can think a little clearer.
I am far from an unfair person. Just to be clear, I’m not saying that anyone said I was. I’m overly cautious and nice (thanks Barton bounty).

I have left the loaner alone for the majority of the share and for the most part I have been happy with his care. She adores him. I’m not taking that away from her. Unfortunately there have been a few breeches over the period and things that I haven’t liked, which I have brought up not to her face but via message as she is volatile and likes to say I am attacking her.
I have ALWAYS stated that when I had my own place he would come back to me, to retire, to jump, to go live in a hole whatever, it’s up to me.
I hadn’t seen him since the summer but had asked for regular updates and messaged to see how they were. She always said he was amazing and hacked beautifully (was on a strict hacking loan), and never once mentioned to me that she was having lessons, going in the school or taken his hind shoes off (he needs a full set and always has). If the farrier had said let’s take his backs off then it should have been discussed. But I digress. He’s fat. Overweight for an older horse with no top line or neck anymore (this is where comparison photos come in). He has also become very needy as she only has him with one other horse (he used to be the first horse out with me and didn’t care if he was on his own for hours and now he screams).

When I got to the yard to see him, the first thing she did was bitch and moan about the other liveries and how they kept their horses. I was like wtf but saw an opening to mention that I had a stable. She threw her toys and told me I couldn’t do that and I very quickly shut up as I could see the situation escalating.
When I got home I sent a message saying that as discussed blah blah and also there was a breech in the contract due to the lessons (when she told me I didn’t say a word due to the blow up when I mentioned moving him). I offered for her to share him from my yard (didn’t discuss details but would have been open to helping out as much as possible as it’s 9 miles away).
She then sent me a vile voice note telling me what a terrible person I was etc etc and how she felt sorry for the horse and how I was an awful owner and how dare I take him when he is happy.
I tried to placate, in writing, singing her praises and reminded her that he is mine and was to always come back to me. She attacked me again and said she couldn’t travel 9 miles one way to see him and again what a terrible person I was, that our turn out wasn’t big enough (she has never been to our yard) and karma will get me and she is blocking me and i must stop messaging her or else she will call the police.
(If anyone wants to see the messages I will be happy to share privately…I feel I have to offer so as I am not slated on here).
I replied and said I was sticking to the contract which was 60 days notice and she as to not block me as she had my horse.
She then rounded on me again, saying I was financially unstable (ummmm) and how dare I look for sharers and she feels sorry for horses in my care.
She also said that the contract (BHS) was null and void and if I wanted to enforce it to get a solicitor. She wanted to keep the horse but I must also come and collect him when I want.

And that, my fellow HHers is the story. If she finds out I have posted on here then so be it. It’s the truth.

 

[ihatework]

Quite frankly I find it weird that you left this horse with her so long, given historical issues. I also find the saddle thing weird and the past legal issue weird. We obviously only hear your side of things.

But the biggest thing I find weird (given you have every right to collect your horse from a lunatic, again I’m taking everything at face value) - is why the latest update isn’t ‘right, just off to collect him, wish me luck!’

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Quite frankly I find it weird that you left this horse with her so long, given historical issues. I also find the saddle thing weird and the past legal issue weird. We obviously only hear your side of things.

But the biggest thing I find weird (given you have every right to collect your horse from a lunatic, again I’m taking everything at face value) - is why the latest update isn’t ‘right, just off to collect him, wish me luck!’

you are of course entitled to your opinion.